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[-] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 88 points 1 week ago

I'd argue that Nancy Pelosy is more representative of the dems than AOC.

[-] Hellahunter@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Well, I’d argue Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals, which most of us are not.

I’d even argue is Nancy even a dem at this point she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.

[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 37 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals

Yes which is much closer to who the Dems are representing as a whole

[-] Hellahunter@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

That’s fair I’d agree with it.

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[-] StaticFalconar@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

While Nancy's actual politics may be more centrists than dem, shes still one of the old guards that must go away for any actual change in the party.

[-] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago
[-] Allonzee@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.

To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.

Neoliberals don't squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don't see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. "free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!" Because it's free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.

[-] orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

agreed. In context, they're centrists for the States. Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world but considered extreme here by corporate media and the other government clowns.

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[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The centers of both parties are functionally allies, the power structure of the Democratic party despises the kind of progressive politics AOC and Bernie do far more than the Republicans they claim to oppose even when those Republicans are literal out in the open fascists. Chuck Shumer is exhibit A and will become a historical touchstone for discussions about how neoliberalism always in the end sets up the conditions for fascism and then pathetically collapses in the crucial moment of resistance against fascism.

Fuck that, both parties need to go, how many times has the Democratic party laughed in the face of Bernie as they blatantly undermined him?

No, I treat Republicans as an existential threat, which means I also logically see the entrenched power structures of the Democrats that are happy to lose to Republicans rather than evolve, as an existential threat.

Pelosi is a Democrat through and through, AOC and Bernie are Democrats because they have no choice in the status quo.

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[-] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 53 points 1 week ago

Anyone that has to hear “the two parties are not the same” is too stupid to change their tiny little mind and recognize it.

[-] arrow74@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I once got a death threat here on lemmy for suggesting that democrats were better than Republicans. That was interesting to say the least

[-] GuyFawkes@midwest.social 7 points 1 week ago

You’re not wrong. Apparently the truth stung someone pretty hard.

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[-] TheThrillOfTime@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 week ago

Americans need to stop saying the Democrats want universal healthcare. They don't and they've made that clear numerous times.

[-] blady_blah@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago
[-] TheThrillOfTime@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 week ago

Obamacare, the multiple times in 2016, 2020, and 2024 when they were deciding on a platform and universal healthcare never made the cut. They've had plenty of opportunities to push it and they never do.

[-] Grimtuck@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

That's because you're political system is broken by lobbying. Fix that and you might start to see both parties make decisions for the people instead of the corporation's and billionaires that give them both insane amounts of money. Money they need to stay elected.

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[-] GoodOleAmerika@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago

Can we stop putting AOC and Sanders as Democrats please. At least these two are vocal.

[-] Cliff@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago

Sanders is not even a member of the Democratic Party.

[-] OnlyJabs@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

AOC is not a good representation of the democrats. Obama, Biden, Pelosi, and Gavin Newsom are better reps for the party. With the things AOC values, it feels she only identifies as Democrat in order to be on the Democrat ballot. AOC has been touring with Bernie. Bernie doesn’t even identify with the Democratic Party, but still came dangerously close (according to the Dems) to being the elect instead of Biden back in 2019-2020. The Democratic Party did not like that. The dems want to keep the working class down. The republicans want to squash the working class and more into submission.

I think the people that align with the Democratic Party were feeling a lot of this between late 2019 - mid 2020.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Obama, Biden, Pelosi, and Gavin Newsom

Obama being a proponent of universal healthcare back in 2008, Biden a supporter of the Green New Deal, and Newsom part of a push for universal healthcare in Cali?

I don't mean to say that any of this is enough. I don't mean to say that the Dems aren't dragging their fucking feet and 10 years too late on every goddamn issue; I'm not saying that the system is working or that we don't need a new system.

But anyone who says that the two parties are the same or indistinguishable in terms of results or ideals is selling a crock of fascist-flavored shit. Apathy and non-participation benefits conservatives.

[-] peregrin5@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You're screaming into the void here on Lemmy. All we have are tankies and teenagers that want Amazon two-day shipping on their "Revolution^TM^" and are throwing a crying temper tantrum that the majority of the American public don't agree with them.

So they bitch about the Dems who are the only ones actually trying to solve the problem for not doing it fast enough while they themselves do literally nothing to solve any actual problems and giving the Republicans, the party that is actually causing all the problems, a complete free pass.

The tankies are the toddler throwing a tantrum on the floor of a toy store. The Dems are their mom who isn't buying them the Xbox game they want and the Republicans are the store owners hiking up the price of the game to make it unaffordable to all but the extremely wealthy. Their little baby brains can only think to whine and cry and blame their mom because they have no understanding of the reality behind, well.. anything really.

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AOC and Bernie should just start their own party and drive the establishment democrats out if business.

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[-] LotrOrc@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

If only the democrats actually listened to AOC and Sanders.

But they don't.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

"But what if we compromised with them and our donors, and then compromised with the Republicans, and then put on our shocked pikachu face when the Republicans don't compromise with us in turn???"

Legit, the second half of the problem is related to our gerontocracy. These fucking dinosaurs are still acting like it's the 1970s and 1980s, when they first came to power.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 1 week ago

Oh I'm sure they'll listen to them right up until the point where they find another member of the Clinton family that hasn't had their turn yet.

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[-] Mouette@jlai.lu 20 points 1 week ago

Yeah for sure AOC represent Democrats 😂😂😂. They are all behind her and sure will let her run for primary and win like they did with Bernie Sanders. LMAO

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[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

MTG is just there for the lols. She was rich before she got elected and gotten even richer since. She’a there to pass out the matches and watch the world burn

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

And yet when the legislature arrives to give us free Healthcare the Democrats don't pass it despite having a majority.

Both sides aren't the same, but their choices produce the same results.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

And yet when the legislature arrives to give us free Healthcare the Democrats don’t pass it despite having a majority.

Obamacare saved my life and was the product of immense effort at a time when the Dems were more conservative than they are today. Blue Dogs were wiped out in 2010 and 2012 because of that (correct) rage against them.

You can say what the Dems managed to do was not enough - and it's not. Millions of people are not as lucky as me (though I suppose poverty is a strange kind of luck - poverty in a blue state, perhaps, more appropriately) and still suffer immensely under our utterly fucked healthcare system. But it's not the same result as doing nothing - or worse, handing control over to the GOP. Millions like me owe a greatly improved quality of life, or our very lives, to the reforms passed.

If you have a plan to destroy the Dems and replace them all with left-wing progressives, and put demo charges on the base of our utterly fucked rat's nest of a government structure, I'm not here to tell you not to. But I am here to tell you that both sides are not the same for millions of disadvantaged demographics, even if the Dems are not enough for those selfsame demographics.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

That's really the one big thing I can think of that they did get through.

It got like 80mil people health insurance which was great.

It was still a huge compromise from the free universal healthcare that was the original goal.

It's worth noting that Obama did this by going around party leadership. Once he was in power he did not obey the DNC like other candidates have.

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[-] silentjohn@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 week ago

There's always conveniently a cohort of Dems that vote against party lines. Every. Time. Then they can shrug and say "welp, we tried".

Two sides of the same capitalist shit sandwich.

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[-] MITM0@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Democrats are literally controlled-opposition

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[-] Allonzee@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

MTG is far more welcome in her party than AOC is in hers.

The neoliberal DNC sees the Republicans as their esteemed opposition, as they are on the same take and have the same orders on Economic policy. They see spoilers like AOC, who are not on the corpo bribe train and for profound economic policy changes, as their enemy.

https://apnews.com/article/business-nancy-pelosi-congress-8685e82eb6d6e5b42413417f3d5d6775

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/15/nancy-pelosi-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-481704

The Democrats, almost all of them save a couple of spoilers, aren't the fascists themselves, but they've spent the last half century enabling the fascists. The Democrats don't care about entire industries of confidence schemes murdering Americans like our deathcare industry, they don't care about poor kids getting a good education, and they dont care about millions of our most betrayed neighbors dying in the streets. As the bad cop Fascists brag about how much they love the schaudenfreude of the pain those people are in, the good cop neoliberals shrug "free market forces, sorry! But I do affirm your identity, homeless dying/lifesaving healthcare denied person!"

That's why there really isn't hope until we collapse, hopefully by our hands in revolution and not by oligarch made climate change in a couple decades. Best, best, best, best case scenario, we have a real election in 3. 5 years and the Neoliberals gain power, do NOTHING to reign in the oligarchs, income inequity, or our sociopathic, murderous capital markets as they're gleefully paid not to do. Fascism is the takeover of the state to serve big capital's need for ever moar, and so the table will remain set to go back on the fascist march in just another 4 years.

[-] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

These are wildly opposite and anyone who says AOC isn't a real representation of DNC must also find a more GOP aligned member, like Mike Johnson or Steve Scalise. They are despicable but not all-caps-tweets kind of despicable.

[-] WuceBrillis@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

AOC is the only representation of the DNC. Hope she unseats Schumer, becomes leader of the democratic party, and down the line runs for President. She will be the best president America have had.

I do not hope she runs for President next time though, as my thoughts of Americans are very low, and i believe them to be too bigoted to vote for her yet. yet.

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[-] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

AOC is progressive, not a neoliberal. Saying liberals want universal healthcare is a straight up LIE

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[-] LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

In a vacuum like this using the best and worst (dumbest?) example from each party.

But both parties as a whole serve the interest of capital. Their methods might be different. Their indirect/direct use of violence might be different. But they serve the same people with the same interest. AOC and Bernie are even saying that now. They've been criticizing the democratic party at all of their events.

Can the liberals stop pretending we can vote our way out of facism and please fucking join us on the left. Fucking please.

Fascism is here. Due process is gone. First amendment is gone. If you're waiting to vote again you're no different than someone in Russia thinking they can vote Putin out of power.

Grab a pitchfork (metaphorically speaking) and get organized.

Join PSL or DSA or anyone in your area resisting ICE. Now. Do it now.

Edit: For every downvote please comment with a different organization resisting ICE and organizing locally. Because if it's just criticism of the groups that ARE resisting it's not helping. Give people an alternative. I would LOVE people just listing groups that are resisting ICE in your area or nationally. Because that's all I want.

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this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2025
1116 points (97.2% liked)

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