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Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of SCIENCE? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 day ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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Feel free to remove this, mods, if it's too tangential to modern science, but I thought the community might find this early nature vs. nurture hypothesis amusing

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[-] Asetru@feddit.org 12 points 23 hours ago

But he laboured in vain, for the children could not live without clappings of the hands, and gestures, and gladness of countenance, and blandishments.

Am I the only one who interpretes this as "well, they died"?

[-] Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

It sounds to me it's saying you had to do things like clap your hands to get their attention, gesture to communicate what you wanted them to do, and that you had to do so kindly and patiently or else they may not respond well. Alternatively, maybe it was the children who had to clap their hands and gesture, but then I'm not sure how they'd speak blandishments (kind, gentle encouragements, like "good job!") to others.

[-] Asetru@feddit.org 2 points 10 hours ago

Just looked it up. They all died quickly. It's literally just "they couldn't live without it."

[-] Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

No, this passage is describing the care they needed.

It doesn't make any sense as an interpretation to jump right to death if you look at what the passage actually says. They died because they couldn't clap their hands? They died because they or their caretakers didn't smile enough (gladness of countenance)? They died because they didn't get enough gentle encouragement from their caretakers (blandishments)?

This was from a list of fucked up things Frederick II did written by a guy who hated him. If the kids had died as a result of the experiment, surely it'd say so. It's just saying the experiment was a a failure (labors were in vain) because of course they did not spontaneously start speaking Hebrew, Greek, Latin and instead had to rely on nonverbal communication.

If someone says "I can't live without my phone," they aren't going to literally drop dead one day if they forget it at home.

If you have a source laying around for info on the kids' deaths, I'd take it.

[-] Asetru@feddit.org 2 points 8 hours ago

https://signsmag.com/2018/09/fredericks-experiment/

The babies literally died for want of touch

https://vocal.media/history/the-king-who-isolated-infants-to-determine-which-language-adam-and-eve-originally-spoke-i13l0c1o

The emperor’s experiment, however, ended in tragedy. Deprived of emotional and social interaction, the infants did not develop any language and eventually died.

https://www.historyanswers.co.uk/kings-queens/emperor-frankenstein-the-truth-behind-frederick-ii-of-sicilys-sadistic-science-experiments/

Tragically for those involved, Frederick never got an answer to the question he posed, and the original language of mankind remained hidden from him. The children, starved of any form of affection, warmth and basic interaction, died, quite simply, of a lack of love.