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Dont Ever Listen To Those Who Claim "Voting is Pointless" (lemmy.ca)

submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 63 points 23 hours ago

When will the liberal party pass the electoral reform they were elected to pass?

[-] Hazematman@lemmy.ca 5 points 14 hours ago

Its a stretch but I'm hoping with a liberal minority there is chance the NDP could advocate for electoral reform as negotiation point. Its a stretch but I feel like its the only way it could happen.

[-] walktheplank@lemmy.world 24 points 21 hours ago

They won't

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml -5 points 4 hours ago

precisely why voting is pointless

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Ahh, here's the tankie...

You're responsible for Donald Trump getting elected because you just focused on attacking democrats relentlessly then foolishly claimed that voting is "pointless"

Get out of here with your authoritarian tendencies.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 11 hours ago

They will with enough pressure. This negative attitude is useless.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Pressure as it "voting for other people" and "nationwide general strike" or pressure as in "Thoughts and prayers" online?

Because the first isn't going to happen, as evident by this election, and the second hasn't achieved anything so far, and will continue to achive nothing because it isn't actually pressure.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 hours ago

That's such a strawman as I have never said to "only vote." There are many things people can do to pressure the government.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I didn't say you said to only vote. I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

So what do you propose we do that will convince the government to give up their power, short of voting them out or a general strike?

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

It worked in Quebec, the bloc supplanted the conservatives and liberals in many of their ridings. We need to have more regional parties and a larger push for proportional representation from the conservatives and liberals. Blue and Red are only so powerful thanks to our donations, volunteering and positive reinforcements. Take that away and they will be shells of their formerselves.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 hours ago

You do realize the block lost a third of their seats? The whole problem with the current system is that unless you can get the entirely country to simultaneously change who they back, you just further entrench whichever party is worse. Your solution boils down to, "Get people to support smaller parties instead." That doesn't work in a two party system, as evidenced by the current condition of our voting system, and by every other FPTP country out there.

The only way the current system changes is an organized, country-wide show of resistance that actually hurts the rich and powerful. This probably means a general strike. Unfortunately, people aren't going to be willing to rock the boat until things start to get unlivable, and by that point extremists and grifters will be firmly entrenched and will seize power instead.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

You can do both have a general strike and support smaller parties who are much more pro-union.

https://cupe.ca/our-election-system-unfair-we-can-make-it-better

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

My point is that neither of these methods work, because they require simultaneous support from large portions of the country. Canada is too complacent for that.

Even when it came to trying to prevent a Trump brown-noser from become Prime-Minister by putting an X on a peice of paper, we couldn't get 70% participation. Do you really think we can get even 10% of people to strike? Or like 50% of people to vote for small parties simultaneously?

Thats obviously not to say it isn't worth trying, but its absurd to expect results at this point. No one cares enough to force change.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago

You don't succeed the first time. That's why you adjust and try different methods.

No one cares enough to force change.

That's certainly not true as the canadians give the liberals a minority so they're forced to compromise with the smaller parties that's how we got universal heatlhcare.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

You're missing my point. Under FPTP, small parties are rapidly shrinking and losing power. Outside the two party system, only 30 seats are held currently (down from 59), and this will continue to shrink.

The only directly political way this will change is if BQ and NDP form an alliance to force election reform through. How likely do you really think that is, given their lack of action in the past?

Indirectly, you need en-masse, organized voting for small parties and or a massive, enconomy threatening strike. Neither is going to happen unless things get MUCH worse.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 30 minutes ago

Eh the smaller parties didn't resonate with people so much this time around and we were closer to a 2-party state in the past. I mean we had the unionist party supplant the conservatives and liberals during ww1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Canadian_federal_election

Being negative is cheap and doesn't inspire anyone. That's what the powerful few want. I want to hear solutions not complaining.

[-] walktheplank@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

And that pressure comes from the citizens who never put pressure on. I live in a fascist government situation in Canada simply because I am disabled. But people like you would tell me to stop complaining that at least I have some support. I have chased my MP to no effect or response at all. I have done the same with my MLA. I have educated my fellow Canadians. I have ranted and raved for decades and protested about how we are treated as second class citizens and you all are not standing up for us. None of you. I'm purple in the face from screaming into the void.

You expect people to stand up for you? You're delusional. My experiences at the bottom of Canadian society tell me otherwise.