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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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Privacy
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Genuine question; what’s the difference between DeepSeek gathering data and for example ChatGPT or Gemini?
Three of them are (I assume) great for usage but disastrous regard privacy and data.
because China bad and USA good :(
I mean we can generally agree that China is worse. That doesn’t mean we should willingly donate our data to the US, but if you have to choose between amputating your foot or your little toe it’s an easy decision.
Can we? Which country had open sourced it's models and weightings so that the LLM can be run locally and spyfree?
I run deepseek locally so obviously I appreciate that they made that decision, but let's not pretend that something can't be given away for free with bad intentions. People running LLMs locally are a drop in the bucket compared to people just downloading an app.
Bad intentions? ~~The Chinese government~~ Deepseek showed that the OpenAI emperor had no clothes.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. That means they have good intentions with the data they're collecting about the users of their mobile apps?
It's a reference to a fairy tale called Emperor's new clothes.
That mean they have at least less bad intentions than chatgpt at least the opened their model on contrary of chatgpt.
It does not mean that at all. Nothing about choosing to release a model for free or not has any bearing on whether or not the app will respect the privacy of its users.
OpenAI could feel like they're making enough money off of their proprietary model that they don't need to collect data (I'm not saying this is likely), while DeepSeek could have released the model for free hoping mass adoption leads to more app downloads and more data to harvest. I don't assume either has good intentions.
Thanks for putting other word in my mouth. I never told any of both have good intention, but at least deepseek didn't promise to release the model to change it's mind and close source it. Feel that it is a little better than chatgpt, since they didn't shit on the face of the community yet. I am sure both collect data, and I wouldn't thrust them with sensitive informations.
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think the CCP cares about the users of deepseek mobile app when they already have an ocean of data from tiktok. That's the real trojan horse.
Mobile access to an LLM is a similarity. The big difference between chatgpt and deepseek is the open model weights.
Lol the real ones have long been on 小红书
You think them already invasively farming user data from tiktok somehow makes them less likely to do the same thing with another app, and not more likely?
If someone stole $1000 from you and then asked to borrow $20, would you give it to them? Surely they won't steal that too, they already have $1000.
I'm not saying it's less likely. I'm saying there is a completely different reason for deepseek to exist.
France, Mistral. There are also many others in US and worldwide.
China is worse when comparing many other factors, but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os, then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.
We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.
Again, not an opinion everyone agrees on. And this very much depends on which factors are cherry picked.
If you want privacy then you need to run locally, and to run locally all you do care about is model weights.
Not sure why this dimension is worth adding to the discussion.
Then why are you asking binary questions about countries? Meta released open source models and weights way before DeepSeek, but I guess that wouldn't fit into your "China is better" narrative so we'll just pretend Llama never happened.
Because a highly opinionated binary statement was made about China. I'm not saying China is better than the US. I'm saying it's not worse.
You asked "which countries".
Only people who don't have their heads buried in the sand. You can't possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US. I literally don't believe you. You're a bot or a paid actor.
Countries and LLM model providers associated with those countries.
All openai data goes to the NSA
Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.
When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.
But if you are introducing other factors, ask an Iranian what they prefer; money from China or bombs from the US and vassal states?
The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.
No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.
You're comparing online models with local models. Local OpenAI models are also private.
Good thing no one said that. It's not just America either. Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea), and if you don't believe that, you need to open your eyes.
The only way to ensure no data collection is to run locally, which requires openness.
Correct
They don't exist, and privacy cannot be guaranteed.
So you do think that.
The word used was "worse" which is highly subjective.
Residents of "the land of the free" don't understand irony.
Okay at this point its pretty clear you have no intention of good faith discussion and want to constantly redirect the conversation to a strawman argument so I'm going to bail.
Dude, you are the one inserting words like "freedom" trying to slide the conversation.
China is not worse , principally because worse is unmeasurable.
Wow nuance much?
Yes, China has problems with authoritarianism, and curtailing free speech and such.
But, there’s a lot of good happening there too.
It’s not black and white.
USA v. China is not Gondor v. Mordor.
Have you been to China?
If not, you should 100% go and check it out for yourself!
There's plenty of nuance but that's not relevant in generalities.
No one said it's all bad. There's lots of good everywhere. That doesn't mean everywhere is an equally good place.
What am I going to find out by going there that I can't read about? That I've been lied to? That the CCP isn't blocking information about Tianenmen Square and other govt atrocities? That the mere act of protesting isn't illegal? That they aren't murdering dissidents? Privacy in it's entirety isn't illegal?
All of them?
Where is the ChatGPT repository?
We cannot agree, “comrade.”
US oligarchs have serious sway within EU and Germany in particular. They get their way.
We? More like we...stern imperialists
Oh no we fucking can't bucko
chatgpt and gemini gather data for the US govt, which is the one actively fucking europe over at the moment. so clearly, deepseek is what they need to worry about.
Yes but you see a white man having control of your data is much better than a colored one!
AFAIK per EU law the collected data has to stay in data centers in the EU, ChatGPT and Gemini at least pretend to conform while Deepseek explicitly states that the data is stored in Chinese data centers.