-13
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
-13 points (43.4% liked)
World News
32353 readers
324 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Russia is bombing Ukrainian civilians non stop, but yeah, let's blame the West for bad living conditions. Unbelievable.
How exactly is Russia's bombs the only factor in the Ukrainian government imposing labour conscription on their people? Surely if they're so democratic, they could've found some other way to go about fixing the labour shortage.
You really don't see how it's a consequence of the invasion?
We can go all the way back to Gorbachev and we won't find a single root cause of this present situation, but instead many different factors. But I see no reason to assume that the Russian SMO on the DPR and LPR is the sole, deterministic cause of this labour conscription, disregarding all agency of the Ukrainian government and NATO on their own internal policy matters. Japan might've started the war against the USA in WW2, but I don't think it removes the agency of the USA government from putting their Japanese-Yankee citizens in internment camps or nuking Japan twice.
What the other comment seems to imply is that all the issues there are caused solely by Russia's participation in the Donbas War, disregarding how the article goes in detail about how those things listed (such as the labour draft) are policies made by the Ukrainian government. It is clear as day that the Ukrainian government values retaking the east and privatising its property much more than the lives of the citizens they claim to protect.
Russian imperialism, there you go. It's both funny and sad how you communists get so blinded by the US hate that you automatically go for "Russia good", even though it's an authoritarian kleptocracy with no relationship to communism.
Yes, that's the prime determinant of the current situation.
Ukrainian government is still fighting for the existence of the Ukrainian state and against genocide of the Ukrainian identity.
Wow, I had never considered before that Russia might be in the war. \s
Yeah, if you see every geopolitical conflict this simplistically, you'll often find that the exact group you already dislike is the cause of all your problems. There's no other way this could've gone, the moment Putin got in power we could already all predict that Zelensky would be elected and that his government would ban all men aged 18 to 60 from fleeing the conflict. It was also similarly inevitable that there would be mass conscriptions not only for war but also for work. Tangentially nobody but Putin had any impact on whether Azov would be formed or on the war against the Donbas separatists.
This was all solely the fault of a single group and nothing anybody else could've done. Come on now, child, you know that politics is not as simple as that. And if you think I somehow think that "Russia good," because I criticise the other side of the war, you might need to read some history of bourgeois wars. It's a reactionary liberal bourgeois country, just like the USA, but much smaller, less entrenched, and with some opposing interests, if you want my opinion on them. It's not really relevant though.
So could Ukraine not find other solutions to their present crises? Off the top of my head, accepting Russia's ceasefire requests, letting their civilians leave and not demanding that every worker also present their conscription documents in order to work, all sound like pretty good initiatives to combat the labour shortage. But no, obviously the Ukrainian govt has no agency on their own country and it's all only in Russia's court.
No they aren't. The Ukraine state has had it's existence guaranteed by Russia so long as they concede defeat and allow the independence of the eastern separatists. Besides that, just also not joining NATO. Russia has shown very little interest in annexing the entirety of Ukraine and the Ukrainian identity is safe and sound within the conscript dictatorship of Ukraine. If anything, the NATO puppet government probably has more Ukrainian blood on their hands than Russia for insisting on this lost war for the past 1 year.
But do spell it out then. How is Ukraine's draft only Russia's fault, with no responsibility for it at the Ukrainian government's/NATO's feet? I'd be happy to hear it.
Of course, it could have gone differently. Putin's mother could find a different lover and the world would look differently. Putin's mother is therefore one of the causes, just like the infinite amount of other factors.
What you're doing now is the equivalent of analyzing why a certain woman got raped. Factor 1, she's single, no husband to protect her, factor 2, she went to the club, factor 3 she wore a short skirt .... You're desperately trying to analyze the "factors" to shift the attention, and the blame from the rapist.
"So could the woman do something differently to avoid being raped?"
Again, victim blaming.
And the "de-nazification", de-militarization, ceding Kherson and Zaporozhija Oblast, no NATO or other protection. You end up with a rump state just like Czechoslovakia after Munich decree, helpless and ready to be re-invaded (March 1939).
my god you're daft.
Sorry it didn't work out, your manipulation tactics are just too easy to see through.
fr fr you got me there, I'm so owned lmao
This war would happen with or without putin, the war is due to the collapse of the soviet union, the far right Ukrainian coup, and the Ukrainian government bombing their own people for almost a decade.
There was no bombing in Ukraine at all until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Also, who would have guessed that a Stalinist cares about civilians, lol.
I usually don't link wikipedia because I assume it's beneath the level of interest and knowledge of people on forums, but you clearly have some homework you need to do. So here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014%E2%80%932022)
You must have some problem with basic logic - the whole thing started with a Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbas in 2014-2015.
directly from the wikipedia page:
Come on, study a bit. Have another one. When did this whole thing start again?
Your quote confirms that Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Still problems with logic?
And nothing happened before that that involved people being killed?
You mean how Yanukovich's snipers have been shooting the protesters at the Maidan square? Yeah, sure, that one as well.
Cool, now it seems you're up to speed and are now aware that Ukraine already existed before 2022 and that it didn't all start because of Russia randomly. Now read these too.
fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes
snipers: https://brill.com/view/journals/rupo/8/2/article-p181_5.xml
Do your thing, reply guy!
Very sad event indeed. But I don't know what's your point. Are you trying to justify a war which killed tens of thousands of people by an unfortunate event killing 48 people?
I assume you didn't read the second one, about your claim over the snipers. Go back and read again. And who started the Donbas war?
Katchanovski is known for his pro-Russian bias and his work isn't accepted by mainstream scholars.
Mostly Russian "vacationers".
Please elaborate on what's wrong with the article. Proclaiming "biased bias" and quoting mystical nameless "mainstream scholars" ain't scientific.
And also explain who those Russian vacationers are who managed to singlehandedly declare two independent republics and a separatist movement. Might as well give me your Fantasyland timeline of the war against the DPR and LPR, because you are quite vague in everything you say and I can't read your mind.
I myself am not an expert on the subject, but other experts don't seem to accept his work.
How about you study what happened yourself? Read e.g. Hybrid Warriors which is not a bad account on the events, even though it's also Putin apologetic.