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submitted 18 hours ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[+] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works -12 points 18 hours ago

ffs they won’t eat honey, and that’s only because you’re stealing the fruits of the bees’ labor. I would assume the International Vegan Council outright bans figs with extreme prejudice.

[-] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 hours ago

This is more in the "dead worms in the compost make their way into the vegetables we eat" wheelhouse than in the "lets steal these animals labor for their young, risking death and injury to the workers while doing so" wheelhouse

[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 19 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

they won’t eat honey, and that’s only because you’re stealing the fruits of the bees’ labor

Not the only reason. For example, an infamous and common practice in the honey industry is to cut off the queen's wings, ensuring the hive has no choice but to stay there and produce honey.

I've never met a vegan who won't eat figs; figs' relationship with fig wasps is symbiotic, and yes, excluding fruit on the basis that "eating the fruit of a pollinated plant is exploiting the pollinator" probably far oversteps the "practicable" part of veganism:

Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

[-] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago

Would you eat honey from a natural hive without these practices?

[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Good question. I wouldn't (we're assuming casual foraging for fun and not a survival situation); it's still not vegan, but it'd be arguably less unethical on a spectrum.

A con compared to the apiary is that these wild bees aren't being artificially supplemented by e.g. sugar water; it's live-or-die for them, and that's their food. It's not in me to take that away from them when I don't have to.

If someone took like a teaspoon of honey (still the lifetime output of about a dozen bees) while giving the bees something greater in return, then I don't think most vegans would think it's inherently wrong*, but like any ethical framework, whenever you try to find contrived boundaries, it's kind of like "okay, but why?" It's sometimes engaging on the armchair but rarely in practice.

A huge pro compared to the apiary is avoiding, in addition to the physical mistreatment of the bees themselves, the perpetuation of the exploitation. If you one-and-done plunder a hive, that's not vegan, but you're not giving money to someone as a way of telling them "thanks, and keep doing this".

* I'm making a hand-wavey assumption here that you can just do that without pissing off and killing a bunch of bees or smoking them out just so we can have perfectly ideal ethical conditions.