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This NDP MP believes ‘unapologetic socialism’ can revive the party
(breachmedia.ca)
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She's probably right, as long as they don't call it what it is.
There is still a large enough contingent of people that get their news from down south that believe the red scare.
One thing we can learn by watching the right grow is that you don't need to be apologetic even if you're in minority. What ultimately matters is having a strong and motivated core of people who are willing to be there for the long haul. That means having a vision people can get behind, and that just can't be the lowest common denominator.
The right are barely in the minority though. And shouting from the rooftops that you are for unabashed socialism, is a dangerous move. You have entire generations of people still voting in this country, with decades of fear about socialism and the Soviet Union, from a generation long cold war.
You cling onto this strategy, you are riding pine all the way to near zero. This is why I still doubt the NDPs capability to lead. They can't even seem to get their own ships sailing in the same direction internally, how can we realistically expect them to navigate the treacherous geopolitical landscape of current times? This is a serious question.
It's going to be us picking between giant douche and turd sandwich for another generation I fear. Because the fringe just cannot quit being fringe.
The right is doing a lot better than the left both in the US and Canada right now. And frankly, being afraid to actually state what you believe in means you don't really believe in it. This whole notion that people have to be tricked into socialism is fundamentally based on dishonesty. Yes, there's been lots of propaganda that older generation buy into. It doesn't really work for younger people who are today suffering under capitalism.
We already saw what trying to be libs lite did to NDP. Being an unapologetically socialist party for the working class is the only way it can be saved. I don't expect NDP to get their act together by next election, but I don't think elections are the right thing to focus on in the first place. What the party should be focusing on is promoting socialist ideology and building a movement. There needs to be an education process where shared understanding is created, and people become committed to the idea for the long haul. It's not a single event like an election, it's a long gruelling process that will take years.
How is the right doing better than the left right now? The liberals are one seat from a majority. Most indications are that if they snapped an election, they would win a majority (and perhaps a pretty sizable one). Hence why you haven't seen the cons trigger it. The NDP are still irrelevant and not even an official party in any of these scenarios, so I'm just not sure what sort of hope you guys are clinging onto here. Going more left is also a pretty weird way to go here, and won't gain the wins that you have imagined they will, but hey go knock yourselves out if you must.
Or, I mean, the winning strategy could be ok sure, like lean a bit to the left. That's all good and everything. But get cohesive, get aligned, get a clear platform built. A realistic one. Then basically sit tight for a few years. The world's going to have it's moment with its current situation, this too shall pass, and basically be ready for that timeline and that moment. Focus on achievable gains, but be ready to strike on a shorter timeframe should the scenario present itself. But that's going to take some bold leadership, because the current shape of the NDP, both with star power and it's financial position, isn't great. The NDP doesn't really want the election right now that you think they would.
The right is literally the opposition party to the libs right now, and nearly lost the election. It sounds like you don't actually understand the definition of the left since you appear to think that liberals are on the left. They are a right wing capitalist party representing the interests of the oligarchs.
Liberalism consists of two main parts. First is political liberalism which focuses on wholesome ideas such as individual freedoms and democracy. Second is economic liberalism which centers around free markets, private property, and wealth accumulation. These two aspects form a contradiction. Political liberalism purports to support everyone’s freedom, while economic liberalism enshrines private property rights as sacred in laws and constitutions, effectively removing them from political debate.
As a result, liberalism justifies the use of state violence to safeguard property rights, over supporting ordinary people, which contradicts the promises of fairness and equality. Private property is seen as a key part of individual freedom under liberalism, and this provides the foundational justification for the rich to keep their wealth while ignoring the needs of everyone else. Thus, the talk of freedom and democracy ends up being nothing more than a fig leaf to provide cover for justifying capitalist relations.
The left doesn't even have a party right now.
Absolutely. Never show weakness in your conviction. Don't back down on your ideas because they may offend.
Seems to work on voters "looking for change" for the politicians selling hate, racism and fascism - don't see why it couldn't work for politicians selling inclusivity, positivity and socialism.
A vision that offers tangible, achievable improvements to people's lives. For example everyone and their dog has promised market solutions to the housing crisis and nothing has worked. The best we got was a pause on the escalation via interest rate hikes and population growth reduction. Solutions that may not be sustainable in changing economic environment. If someone shows up with an easy to understand, tangible non-market solution to the problem, I bet people will go for it in droves. Like getting the government into hiring people to build housing. A tried and true solution.
Absolutely, people are starting to see that business as usual is not working in their favor. Offering a genuine alternative that puts the working class in charge needs to be a clear platform for the party. And the party would need to change dramatically internally for that. Right now, NDP is focused on big donors just like libs and cons are. Most of their MPs are fairly well off people like Jagmeet. It needs far more blue collar representation, it needs to forget about big donors and start doing on the ground organizing, and getting small donations from regular people. It can't be beholden to rich sponsors if it's going to make any change.
It's almost like governments can't control market based solutions!?!
Also the real answer to moving the needle on this problem, I think, is the elimination of the PRTE. You just better buckle up for the thermonuclear boomer outrage that's going to result from that, and I'm not sure there's a politician in this land that's ready to do that.
What is the PRTE?
But governments themselves don't exist in a vacuum either. They represent of the interests of their backers, and our current government represents the rich capital owning class that funds it. Hence why our government lets the market decide things instead of intervening with actual solutions like creating crown corporations that it would control directly.
I think everyone needs to cut this guy a bit of slack. You've got a rockstar level of intelligence in a leader, a non-career politician, someone who's actually gained knowledge, worked for a living, etc etc., trying to guide a country through two major major fronts, one being a grifter career populist politician trying to gain power at whatever costs. The other front is trying to protect us from and guide us through interactions with a completely deranged and unhinged lunatic, surrounded by a real who's-who of the worlds greatest supervillains, who happens to be our biggest trading partner.
Housing is an important domestic policy, don't get me wrong. Yes it's been ignored, abused by capitalism, whatever else, no arguments here. But right now existence and basically sovereignty>primary economic existence>basically everything else.
The roles these people are fulfilling currently, are probably some of the most thankless roles in existence, on the planet, right now. That they literally cannot win at.
For that, they have my support, through this current moment. Everything else, as terrible as it is and as much as that sucks, pretty much has to go on the backburner. I'm not even really a Liberal guy usually. I've voted for all three at some point, for the record (Cons, Libs, and yes even once for the NDP).
A weird take to claim that people shouldn't try to hold the government accountable for their actions to be honest.
Or it's like profit-driven markets deliver profit, and only sometimes decent housing. Governments haven't even attempted to sigtificantly control the market because it would impact various real estate and financial interests supporting the politicians. There are good options for taking care of individual owners if we wanted to significantly deflate the market. They're just not good options for finance and RE corp interests.
I would actually think they aren't so worried about their various financial interests (which if they are substantial are traditionally supposed to be in blind trusts in the case of the leaders), but more or less are worried more about the voters. Once the boomers die off, over the next couple of decades, I think you'll see a gradual, but dramatic shift in perspective about the governments involvement in housing strategy.
The government thought, couldn't run a lemonade stand without 40 layers of bureaucracy, so I mean be careful what you wish for.
I'm referring to the various real estate developers, banking and other corporate donors who donate through organized individual donations and otherwise have access to politicians that voters can only dream of. Like Mirko Bibic having drinks with the CRTC chair.
Probably, but fascism may not wait that long.
I don't believe that, especially given how many serious industries the gov't of Canada used to run and still does to this day. I'm the opposite of a Thatcherite believer. I prefer gov't bureaucracy to corporate bureaucracy. :D There's little choice in-between for many sectors.
E: Or at least a choice between gov't and corp bureaocracy.
Carney has been one of the most popular prime ministers in Canada simply by being a slightly right-of-center liberal which is what the voters want right now.
I think this interpretation of the reasons for Carney's popularity might be incorrect. One reason is that a large part of the Carney vote came from left-of-LPC voters that tend to vote NDP. People like myself and some friends and family. We didn't vote for him because he's right-of-centre. We voted for him despite that. What you're seeing can be correlarion, not causation. As for his current approval, I can say that people like us approve of his overall performance but we do NOT approve of his handling of certain important files like labour rights. For this reaaon I believe that if a better option appears on the table that can keep PP at bay, the ground could shift under Carney as fast as it shifted to get him elected.
When was the last time the NDP leader was a quarter as charismatic as Jack Layton.
I think we're past the time of electing people on charisma. That works when people aren't struggling as much as they are today.
We'll see how things move with the new NDP leader, depending on who it is. We'll talk again. Maybe I'll turn out wrong.
I think you’re underestimating the rizz.
I think you are underestimating the foreign interference that is our press. Ask the next 20 people random strangers who walk past you tomorrow who the leader of the NDP is. You may know the answer to that, but I doubt the other 19 do.
Could be. I'm also betting the economic situation is not gonna improve for most people over the libs mandate and Trump would become less of a threat over that time which is why I'm further discounting the charisma factor. Not that I wouldn't want a charisnaric NDP leader but I prefer being able to get support on the merits of meaningful policy, because that's sustainable beyond the next leader, and it makes campaigning more scalable because every face of the party can sell the policy without needing dear leader's portrait on the wall behind them.
E: I can sell public non-profit grocery stores to most of my family and friends. It's much more difficult to sell them a competition policy adjustment that may or may not result in anything they see.
But that hasn’t been reality for decades.
True and I think there's an opportunity for change at this juncture. It hasn't happened yet.
If everyone sets down reddit and Facebook for a minute, and quiets the screaming chaos that are those things, you'd quickly realize that the vast majority of Canadians are smack dab in the mushy middle that such a leader slots nicely into. Not the one screaming one-liner insults and plays on people's names, and certainly not the one that only really cares about Quebec.
I'm very much talking to real people. The conversations I'm having were unimaginable just 2-3 years ago. My own views have changed a lot. A shift's happening. Very likely not evenly distributed but there was no talk about socialist policy where I am either until recently. According to my conversations people just see everyday problems not getting solved or getting worse for a very long time and they lose faith in the solutions offered so far. For example my immediate real social network is around 10 people. We've been discussing the free market's pros and cons for decades. These days all but one thinks the free market can deliver prosperity for them. Everyone else has lost faith in the model.
Those sort of people would never vote for NDP anyway regardless of their party policies.
I would wish that they never voted.