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I sure as hell don't.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
919 points (85.5% liked)
Antiwork
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We're trying to reduce the numbers of hours a person has to work.
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We talk about the end of paid work being mandatory for survival.
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I mean there's a lot of wilderness and open space in the US. No one is stopping you from going out there and starting from scratch. Go ahead and do it
Yeah, if that’s an option then I respect people who do that, but if you want the comforts of modern society then you need to contribute.
Imo anti work is about pushing back on the ridiculous expectations of companies, and ensuring that employees receive some of the benefits of automation to ease the load on them.
This tweet strikes me as the “but I want everything for freeee!!!” person who makes anti work look bad. Like that idiot Reddit mod who went on Fox News or whatever news station it was.
Yeah I don’t mind working honestly, but I’d love to be able to live as well. Everything revolves around work, and there’s this constant race for improvement and efficiency. There won’t ever be a enough, and that makes me sick.
At some point I’d like to live too. If we’ve gotten so fucking efficient why can’t we cut down the amount of hours of work needed?
No instead we build machines that can perform creative endeavours so all the writers, artists, and the like are freed up to do menial labour instead.
I don’t argue the benefits of society but I still hate it. It’s like an abusive relationship, codependent and toxic. Ugh.
If you are more efficient then you probably need to work at hiding that from your employer and finding a way to spend the hours you save doing something beneficial for yourself. You employer pays you for a certain amount of output per hour, if you can do 8 hours of expected output in 1 then that's your business.
I can get away with this at like office jobs but if you work on your feet, I don't see that happening. I never had extra time in the service industry.
Yeah there isn't much room for hiding efficiency and repurposing recovered hours there, maybe pivot into management?
Yeah, it’s just about pushing back on ridiculous expectations.
If you work and do your part you should get shelter, medical care and all the other necessities, as well as time to live your life. Then, if you work hard you get a bigger house and more luxury items etc.
But we’ve ended up in a situation where you have to work hard and you don’t even necessarily get the basics anymore. Home ownership is a pipe dream for a lot of people in my country.
Meanwhile, people like the one in the tweet just want stuff for free. They don’t actually want a society where people get what they deserve, really they just wish they were born to a rich family and don’t have to work.
So, people with disabilities that prevent labor shouldn’t get shelter, medical care or other necessities? Do you not see how tying peoples worth to their productive capacity has inherent eugenic arguments associated with it?
If we’re going to discuss doing ones part, should we discuss the uncompensated labor which modern society depends on? Should we define what counts as contributing in a way that encompasses these forms of labor? Should we be counting Exxons corporate lawyers as doing their part when they lobby to prevent meaningful actions to combat climate change?
Our society has a profoundly perverse rewards system, which results in nearly inverted compensation compared to contribution. Pedagogy is inarguably one of the single most necessary and important aspects of society, yet educators are compensated poorly and their work devalued.
Antiwork isn’t just “if I work hard I should be rewarded”, it’s “One shouldn’t have to sacrifice their body and mind in service of subsistence wages” and also “my value is not determined by the profits I can produce for a private corporation.” And even “Uncompensated labor is a form of exploitation upon which all economic activity depends, and should be treated with the foundational importance it has, rather then dismissed as valueless or insisted upon as is often done through traditional gender roles”.
Seems like you’re looking for an argument and using me as a straw man, considering I’ve said none of that and actually agree with the points you’re making.
Someone’s part is whatever they’re able to do. If they have disabilities that mean they can’t contribute in a work environment then they’ve essentially already done their part.
There needs to be a base level that means everyone is protected and has what they need. And in an ideal world I’d like to see people like teachers and doctors being among the highest paid/rewarded for what they do.
I gave you an upvote cause I agree with a lot of what you're saying but a lot of people in the comments seem to be applying a whole lot of meaning to that tweet that isn't really there.
All it says it that they didn't consent to the bullshit we currently deal with. Isn't that what the anti-work movement is? We're all sick of the 9-5 bullshit 40+ hour a week grind in order to live?
I mean.. just looking at it I agreed cause yeah, I didn't fucking consent to this shit.
That doesn't magically mean I don't want to work ever. It means I want to work in different ways.
The original anti work community on Reddit was more about the abolition of work, before being co-opted by work reformists. It wasn't about just "pushing back", but about abolishing the modern concept of wage labor under capitalism.
Money doesn't need to exist, so your complaint about them just wanting things for free is ludicrous and strikes me as capitalist apologia.
I recommend reading The Abolition of Work to better understand the concept. At the very least, it would allow you to form actually compelling arguments against the idea so that you don't have to continue showing your ignorance.
Actually, the person in the tweet is saying they don’t want to work. If you go based off that, then they don’t want to be a part of any society, they just want everything for free.
If you want to be part of society, then you work and contribute. Otherwise, you’re just a leech. Whether you’re a billionaire or a poor one.
where did they say that?
No there isn't; it's all claimed by various people or national parks or something.
The idea that one can go out to the woods and build a new society unhindered is pure fantasy.
That would be Freedom ©®™
You absolutely could try. It would be fine until the already established hierarchies feel you're becoming a threat to their monopoly of power. Then they will come up with some reason to go out and shoot you or lock you up.
But I do think most of the people who say shit like they want to live in a wilderness commune would last two weeks before giving up and going back to running water, paved roads and grocery stores.
There's the tiny problem of me not being American though.
Yeah. Dunno about elsewhere but while you can totally set up camp and do whatever, the local government here in Sweden will come with machinery and tear it down if you don’t have sufficient permits or own the land.
Hell even if you own the land there may be codes preventing you from setting up shelter without the right permits.
Du råkar inte vara från Halland eller?
Nope. Ursprungligen från Stockholm. Bott i Sörmland större delen mitt liv, flyttar till Östergötland om ett tag.
You did not specify that. So how was I supposed to know?
Ah yes. USA defaultism. Never fails to entertain.
Ok
You weren't. Don't assume that everyone lives in the US by default.
Ok
Life is based on assumptions. It's a good assumption to assume people online speaking English is from America
No, it is a terrible assumption. English is the de facto lingua franca (wow, four non-English words on a row) of the world, and specially on the Internet.
"Yet you partecipate in society. Curious! I am very intelligent."
False equivalence.
How? This is exactly the type of "arguments" this meme is making fun of.
Person A: Maybe we should improve society.
Person B: If you don't like society why don't you leave it and go live in the forest?
Not doing any work is not improving society
Yes they are, moron.
Taxes are hardly optional, and they WILL punish you for seeking independence.
Yeah no, that's actually literally illegal. You might be able to get away with stealth camping, but you can't just set up a homestead in a fucking forest or something. That shit would be knocked down, you'd be fined, and then you'd be jailed when you fail to pay the fine.