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Democracy in decline worldwide, new report says
(www.politico.eu)
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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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Churchill's point is that stupid things can still happen in democracies, but no one has come up with a better alternative. What would you suggest as the better alternative? If you don't have one, then you just helped prove Churchill's point!
Every human knows and has used a superior system from the time they first started playing with other people: Consensus.
...which is basically what democracy is, but systemitized such that it can be applied at scale.
If we had a consensus based government I wouldn’t have a fascist as a representative
There are more people than just you in your district
Yes and we should all agree on who is going to represent us. Otherwise the losing party is disenfranchised.
You're not going to get unanimous approval for anything when your group size is several thousand people
Maybe the groups should be smaller then
Also, smaller groups mean more representatives, which means unanimity/consensus as you say would also be unlikely at the national level.
I don't believe in nations, either, so that's not a problem for me
Sorry to inform you of this, but nations exist whether you want to believe in them or not.
Just like God, right? God exists regardless of whether I believe in Him?
The difference is, there is evidence for nations existence while there is none for any floating man in the sky who judges you when you die.
What evidence? There’s no borders on the earth. All of the evidence for nations is the same as evidence for god: stuff people made.
And? The stuff people made provides no evidence for God. Only that they revere a being. The systems, power structures and diplomatic missions that people have created point to real, tangible evidence of nations that exist, have motives and can enact meaningful change in the world. God has none of that.
Are tables and chairs any less real simply because people created them?
Don’t religions have power structures and diplomatic missions?
Tables and chairs actually exist in the physical world. They’re objectively real. Countries - like gods - are inter subjectively real.
Sure, but people and organizations act through those. Not gods.
Tables and chairs are nothing more of amalgamations of wood, metal and paint. Nations are nothing more than amalgamations of people acting through institutions. Imo, they're both equally real, because we as intelligent beings have created them and ascribed them meaning and power.
Perhaps. But this is the system we have.
Your shoe has a pretty good knowledge of anarchism. You could learn a thing or two from it
So... A form of democracy?
Democracy is majority rule, and fuck whatever the minority wants.
Consensus is we don’t do anything unless we all agree.
Then you don't do anything. Ok got it, 👍🏾
So the only way to get anything done is to do it against the will of at least some people? You've never been in a group where you agreed on a course of action together?
In a group.. you mean a very limited setting where you can discuss directly with everyone and get direct feedback in real time from everyone?
How do you suggest that this might work on a large scale, with millions of people?
Edit: And if for example 10 million people somehow found consensus and then one guy is like "lmao no", everything gets canned?
There's lots of ideas about this, but my solution is to simply eliminate the idea that we need to rule millions of people.
So some form of tribalism? And what if you generally like living in your consensus community but one thing rubs you wrong and you're against it? You just leave and look for a community where you agree with everything 100% all the time? Good luck with that.
What would you do if your roommate wouldn't help with the housework? Or had some quirk you didn't like? Would you just leave or would you try to work it out?
One thing this thread has taught me is a lot more people than I think can't conceive of alternatives to the shitty system we have. Churchill said it's the best so we're not gonna change it, right?
No, you are not elaborating on your better alternatives. We KNOW that democracy is nort perfect. We are just looking for a solution that is doable in todays world. So now you come in and claim to somehow have a better way to do it. But when questioned, your answers are very vague, we have to pull all the info out of your nose. This tells me you probably don't have any better solutions or just some vague idea of one and no real world application for it.
Of course I would try to work it out. But you just assume this always happens, but what if it DOESN'T?
I'm sorry I didn't have a full treatise on the implementation of anarchism in a modern society prepared for you. I forgot the Internet is Very Serious Business™ and I get paid for educating people on it, not my actual job.
If you want Anarchism, just say so instead of using vague answers?
And the thing with "Educate yourself" is so fucking lazy and a dumbass argument if you claim to have the answer?
Internet: Serious Business.
So nothing gets done then.
...what do you think democracy is?
Are you....high???
Yes but also yes