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Calls to reform UN Security Council after US vetoes Gaza ceasefire
(www.aljazeera.com)
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this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
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Nothing changed on the UNSC when Russia vetoed the resolution to leave Ukraine.
I'm not educated enough to say which is a "worse" violation of the principles the UN stands for, but I'll go out on a limb and say nothing will change this time, either.
Genocide is obviously worse than annexation. One just wants the land, the other wants to kill everyone on it too. Israel is far more evil than Russia.
That said nothing will change indeed.
Russia is committing genocide. They're both evil. Israel has been doing it for longer and is better at it.
Russia is not out to kill all Ukrainians. They are annexing (stealing) land. They want land and then want to assimilate the Ukrainians into their country. (which is bad I'm not condoning Russia here)
Israel wants to kill all the people living on the land and replace them with their own race.
This is not nearly the same
Putin wants to russify ukraine, destroying their heritage and culture. That sounds like genocide to me, dawg
Again I'm not out here to defend Russia or anything but forced cultural assimilation is not Genocide or ethnic cleansing. Under prohibited acts you can find the requirements
Genocide is about intentionally murdering people of an ethnic group or forcefully sterilizing them so their race dies out. Russia wants to own the Ukranians land, not murder them.
I'd personally prefer the option to assimilate rather than being straight up murdered.
You need to read the final prohibited act, Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Actually you're right that does indeed constitute as genocide. My bad.
Fucking liar.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
Article two. Read it, and go silent until you grow a brain, a conscience, or both.
Russia explicitly, openly, and repeatedly states that they desire elimination of Ukrainian nation. Their official stance, repeated by their president and all the state media is that Ukraine and Ukrainians either don’t exist or are a “historical mistake”. Whether they target the entire nation or just the parts they can reach is of no import for the definition of genocide.
In fact, Russia ticks off all five definitions in article two and least points a), c), and d) of article three in Ukraine alone.
I think it's a valid point that Russia's actions aren't driven by racism anywhere as much as Israel's actions, which in turns gets reflected in the proportion of the civilian population killed by both: Israel already killed way more Palestinian civilians in 2 months as a proportion of the 5 million population, than Russia killed Ukranians civilians in 2 years as a proportion of a population of 40 million.
This doesn't excuse Russian actions or make them any less evil, it just shows how Israel is managing to act significantly more evil even than even the people who perpetrated the Bucha and Mariupoli massacres.
Fascists when they have the freedom to do what they want are always evil and it shouldn't be that contentious that the more racist they are, the more evil they act.
It's weird that some here insist on taking the point being made as being "Russia is not evil" rather than being that "Israel manages to be even more evil than Russia".
Racism has nothing to do with casualty numbers discrepancy. Gaza Strip is a densely populated area.
Genocide is not a competition, it’s a crime against humanity. I don’t care whether Israel or Russia does it better, I care that both state actors are reveling in it.
They are knowingly chosing to do a blockade of Food, Water and Medicine which they know has little effect on Hamas (who have stores of those things) and massive effect on civilians.
Also it has been leaked that now, when their casualty estimation systems give a high probability that 5 or more innocent victims will be killed as collateral when attacking a target, they go ahead and attack it anyway, when before they didn't.
They are choosing to kill Palestinian civilians, the very people who members of the Israeli Cabinet describe as "human animals".
Would you have said "Genocide is not a competition" to dismiss the similar hate-driven indiscriminate killing of civilians because of the etnic group they came from practiced by the early Nazi Germany, or would you recognize that is the type mindless hate is what ends up with things like the Holocaust and that such race-Fascism is an altogether separate category from the opportunistic kind of Fascism practiced in places like Spain and Italy?
They do tick off the fifth box of kidnapping children, but the rest not at all.
Elimination of a nation does not mean the elimination of its inhabitants.
You had two options: read one damn sentence or insist on being a tool.
Of course you chose the latter.
Please do quote that sentence you're talking about since you are so much more gifted in the ways of literacy than me
The first bloody page. The article you were asked to read.
But what could I expect from someone who thinks genocide is a competition that one could lose if someone else did it better…
There are multiple definitions of what constitutes as genocide if you read the article, not just attempting to kill 100% of the population. Trying to eradicate the norm and way of life by a group of people and forcing them to adopt a different culture is cultural genocide. Which is what Russia is doing by Russifying Ukraine. And what do they think they're doing by kidnapping Ukrainian children? Not Russifying them?
It is cultural genocide. And kidnapping the children is indeed real genocide.
But Russia's goal is clearly not the total elimination of the people of Ukraine.
Israel wants to literally kill all Palestinians and replace them with israelis. Do you disagree with that?
Russia's goal is absolutely the total elimination of all Ukrainians -- they want Ukraine to cease to exist, consumed by them. They thus eliminate all Ukrainians by instead forcing them to be Russian citizens.
And honestly? I don't think that's Israel's goal, because they don't seem to have a goal. It's just senseless and directionless violence and. To me it looks more like them lashing out because they can. Just like Russia with Ukraine, they want Palestine to cease to exist and all Palestinians to either become Israeli or be exiled. The settler program makes that much obvious.
It's not a super big distinction though, frankly. Sure Israel isn't methodically killing every Palestinian, but they sure as hell don't care about how many Palestinians die. Again, just like Russia with Ukrainians. The goal isn't an organized campaign of ethnic cleansing, but more the total consumption of the land, no matter how many Palestinians or Ukrainians die.
Israel's goal is to end Hamas as a concept, and destroy their infrastructure and resources so they do not have a viable successor
They aren't doing a great job of it. The wanton killing is just making things worse. To truly defeat terrorism they need to invest in the civil government of Gaza and build it up. Otherwise there's always going to be someone to replace Hamas, unfortunately.
I would definitely have prosecuted this war differently, yes.
Elimination of a passport does not mean unaliving someone.
Correct, but that doesn't mean it isn't genocidal. The US didn't stop being genocidal to Native Americans when they stopped killing them.
When would you say that the genocide of the Native Americans stopped then?
IMO not trying to wipe out their race was a great starting point.
Hmmm. Good question actually. I don't know.
No it did not stop then. Not at all.
There is indeed still some genocide in there with kidnapped children but the main part here seems to be cultural genocide. Is that the same as physical genocide though?
Would France banning religious clothing in schools then also constitue as genocide? I don't think so.
What would you say is the point that the genocide against the natives ended?
Both are destroying a culture. Actually, the former in this case is destroying multiple cultures. Including killing children. And you may argue that they didn't murder those children. I would say they did because neglect is a form of murder when it comes to children.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/interior-dept-investigation-finds-burial-sites-53-indian-boarding-schools-2022-05-11/
It hasn't.
https://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/indianas-miami-tribe-battling-for-federal-recognition-after-rule-changes/article_c85613bc-5c6a-5caa-9471-6394726f0fc7.html
"Forced assimilation" is one way to commit genocide. Another is through holocaust. The Holocaust happened to be genocide via holocaust. Gaza happens to be genocide via holocaust. The definition of genocide doesn't require it be committed via holocaust.
Edit: fixed an autoincorrect
The Pharoah must step in!
And the award for the clueless, most unnecessary joke, goes to you. You do understand that not everything requires a shitty take at humor? Your comment brings nothing to the thread, OP has already fixed their mistake. Why are you here?
I'm here to annoy humorless cunts
Textbook genocide. The erasure of a group of people is genocide. That can be done by:
Ethnic cleansing and mass killings (as demonstrated by piles of bodies in Mariupol I believe, as well as mobile crematoriums)
Kidnapping the group's children (again, loudly and proudly admitted to by Russia) to deny the future of the group
Forcible assimilation by preventing the group from practicing it's culture and identity (as demonstrated by Putin saying Ukraine is actually Russian because it's historically part of the Russian empire)
There's one more, that I pray isn't being used and I think we'd have heard if it was. Rape can be used as a weapon of war to force the group to give birth to your children, and deny their future in that way. To my knowledge Russia does not have a campaign to do so with Ukrainians, thank God.
A lot of the tactics Russia is using aren't new either, look into Russification by the USSR to Eastern Europe. They would envelop states into the USSR after purposely growing a Russian population there with settlers. This is the big reason why Eastern Europe tends to hate Russia.
Funny that he says "Russian Empire", because Russia hasn't been an Empire since Tsar Nicholas II. Is he trying to go back to those days, like try to install himself as Tsar?
If that was a thing they actually wanted, they'd be doing a really shitty job of it.
Nah they're doing pretty great at it. Maybe a little too fast this time, normally they're better at taking the land and killing people slow enough to give the US and other Western allies some plausible deniability, but since no one is stopping them still, you can't even hold that against them.