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School is just one simplification after the other (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 8 months ago by illectrility@sh.itjust.works to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] Dalvoron@lemm.ee 19 points 8 months ago

As a teacher, this type of response is a great jumping off point for the discussion of curriculum vs truth, what is the extent of reality vs what is going to be on the assignment / exam etc.

It's also a great way to stick it to the know-it-all who is trying to undermine my credibility, and has the added bonus of perking up the rest of the class.

[-] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If you can actually have a reasoned discussion about it, instead of simply getting angry at being questioned, then you are better than 90% of teachers.

In my experience most teachers don't like being questioned, which of course is directly antithetical to their supposed vocation.

[-] Dalvoron@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago

For me it matters how the question is asked. I love getting questions beyond the scope of the curriculum as it varies up my classes from year to year. However, "Actually there are 4" as in the meme is disrespectful, challenging and undermining. "I heard something about a fourth state of matter, what's up with that?" is a prompt to reasoned discussion.

[-] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sounds like you just don't want your authority to be challenged.

If you're wrong and a student points that out, own it. Instead you expect them to question their own knowledge while submitting to your authority for confirmation or denial. But if the student already knows, they don't need your confirmation. They need you to admit that you were incorrect, and move forward with the correct information. Otherwise you're just demonstrating that you're an authority that cannot be trusted to be fair.

Authority that cannot be challenged is authority that cannot be respected. Authority must continually earn the respect of its constituents, or it will lose its power over them.

[-] Dalvoron@lemm.ee -1 points 8 months ago

Oh I'll admit I'm wrong either way, but yes I do not like my authority to be challenged. It makes the class significantly harder to manage when students feel like it's OK to dunk on me at any opportunity and provides a bad environment for learning. My preference would be respect, but I will settle for being treated with respect. If a student won't offer it to me with their questions, then I won't offer it to them with my response. But I will always admit they are correct (if they are).

Authority that cannot be challenged is authority that cannot be respected. Authority must continually earn the respect of its constituents, or it will lose its power over them.

I sort of agree with this. In a classroom, you can challenge me, my knowledge, my abilities. I like to think I earn the respect of my students with all of these, as well as my compassion, my fairness, my humour.

The reality is that I am an authority however. I wrote the assignments and the exam and I mark them too, and I do it all in accordance with the state-mandated curriculum. If they "know" something because they read about it elsewhere, I should be treated as a equally valid source of information because I am. I know the curriculum inside and out. They dont "need me to admit that I was incorrect, and move forward with the correct information", they need me to tell them why the thing they "know" is not the thing I'm teaching them. I offer that I was incorrect out of humility, not necessity.

[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 0 points 8 months ago

If they “know” something because they read about it elsewhere, I should be treated as a equally valid source of information because I am.

But you've just proven yourself to not be an equally valid source of information because you spread misinformation.

[-] neonred@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I disagree. Telling the students there are three states of matter is just wrong and they have all the right to point it out. They keep that information for decades if not corrected/challenged and will give non true statements to others, their children, etc.

What the teacher instead should have said could may be: "There are many states of matter, currently we know of (amount). The most common however are these three: solid, liquid and gas. Maybe you will encounter a fourth: plasma. The others form in very specific situations that are very outside of our everyday life. You can look them up if you want to know more. But for this class, we only focus on the three most common."

Everything is correct, everything is clear. The scope has been set. Teacher still looks knowlegdeable and reliable. And most importantly: does not lie, tell false facts, he provides options for individual interests and builds trust and does not offer himself for attacks on his position by misusing the trust of the students by telling them factually false content.

Relying on groveling students is morally very bad as that's no relationship based on trust and respect for the pupils and can easily be challenged, like in this example. You would only be offering yourself for failure and risk your "dethroning", which is a bad foundation to build on from the beginning.

Depending on class structure another way could be to include the students and have the whole class collect the states of matter they know of. That way the "plasma" ones could shine and get heard. That way you will probably get to the common 4 but maaaybe someone heard of the BE condensat, which would be extremely cool and impressive. Wrap it up with "Great work everyone! Actually, we currently know of (amount) different states, insane, right? For this class we will focus ourselves on..." That gives bonus points for teamplay and class strengthening.