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this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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As always you need to know how to read a survey like this one. The top answers are all countries that don't allow doesn't and have a very tight surveillance net. So no surprise in these answers.
Imagine genuinely having convinced yourself that you can't gauge general public opinion in a country like China. Like there's a party operative hiding behind every corner listening. 😂
This is your source, so desperate are you to spread good news about authoritarian regimes you don't even check your sources
https://extinctionrebellion.uk/2023/03/07/extinction-rebellion-tells-major-pr-company-edelman-to-tellthetruth-about-fossil-fuel-ties/
You live in an authoritarian regime bud. No good news to find about it though.
You live in western democracy, yet crave living under an authoritarian regime, whatever floats your boat I guess
I live in a western authoritarian regime where the government works in the interest of a small capital owning class. And I crave living in a country where the working class holds power. I guess boots aren't gonna lick themselves though, so capitalists are lucky to have people like you around.
Don't really need to when you've got facial recognition cameras everywhere. Also guessing they didn't ask the Uyghurs what they think. And regular Chinese folk can't really Google that shit now can they?
Here's a playlist with 2382 interviews with Uyghur people from Xinjiang, saying exactly what they think, enjoy (we both know you won't watch them)
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbOIKUddMBtp0_xEFqn4zey48kkgJq5w
Yeah, it's a total mystery why people in a country where they've seen the most rapid advancements in the standard of living support their government. CPC just hoodwinked everyone by providing them with housing, healthcare, education, and jobs. What they really need to find out about their living conditions is access to US propaganda. Also, why wouldn't they ask Uyghurs what they think. Your propaganda diet must've convinced you that Uyghurs don't support the government?
Luckily for us, AP went to interview Uyghurs to see what they think:
Continuing on
It's really difficult debating you because it seems you're just wilfully ignoring shit.
What shit am I ignoring, be specific. Are you trying to claim that freedom from religious extremism is a negative for people of Xinjiang?
You're trying to claim that China forcing people into dropping their religion and then parading them to people on a government guided tour is somehow a good thing.
If this really is a benevolent thing, how about some transparency in what's happening to these people?
If you have a government guided tour, you should be noting what you're not seeing and don't trust what you do see.
China isn't doing anything of the sort. What they're doing is fighting religious extremism, the sort of which no western country would ever tolerate. It's interesting how the same people who purport to support human rights are pretty comfortable with theocracy when it suits their geopolitical interests.
Here's an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang which makes it pretty clear that religious people are a target just like everyone else https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
Here's another interview with Imams https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
A Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on "atrocities" are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
Western reports on Xinjiang don't support the lurid narrative you're pushing either
Representatives of Arab majority nations actually wrote a letter to the UN in support of China https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3853509?ln=en
The reality is that US has been funding and arming extremists in Xinjiang trying to replicate Afghanistan model when they toppled a socialist government there. Don't take my word for it though, here's George Bush's chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here's an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they've been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west.
And of course, before US started weaponizing terrorists they themselves were fighting these people https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Lmao so basically there is absolutely no way to make you change your mind because you will invent whatever you want. If you don't see it, you will just assume it exists and is hidden from you?
This is a wild way to behave. You live in a world that is entirely invented and evidence-free. Any evidence to the contrary is just dismissed as a clever act for the sake of deceiving you.
No, I look at the evidence provided, speculate about what's missing, and then ask why it's missing.
For example, in some of the videos I've seen of N. Korea, there's a certain level of hospitality, but no other customers aside from the visitors. Visitors aren't allowed to go out on their own. There are wide streets with few cars. And so on. So what is N. Korea hiding?
What I'm looking for are answers to questions like:
And so on. I'm not going to just blindly accept anything any government states, I want independently verifiable information.
But that's the problem. You're just speculating.
If I visit america and then speculate that everything I'm seeing is actually fake and made up by an entire country of fucking actors purely for the benefit of pretending america is something it's not you would call me utterly deranged.
Is it the best place in the world to live? Fuck no it's not. Its been embargoed and the subject of economic warfare for decades, not to mention the literal genocide of one fifth of its population that the US performed. Its behaviour towards the US should not at all be surprising given this history, they never want to see it happen again. Imagine if 1 in 5 of every person you know was firebombed and 99% of the buildings in your country were razed to the ground and then some white anglo fucks on the internet just make up shit about you over and over and over again.
Now? Fuck all is happening this ended like 2 fucking years ago and liberals are still going on about it. What did happen? A very serious crackdown and education program that involved mandatory schools where people deemed "at risk" (of becoming islamic extremists) were forced into a 5 day per week (they went home on weekends) education program.
Shit was very serious, terrorism was a real and major problem, bombings were happening once or twice a month and shit was seriously ramping up. This was being imported over the border with Afghanistan. This all stopped after the program.
They were then shut down. The US then proceeded to get out of afghanistan, as it no longer had any reason to be there. Here is a video of Col Lawrence Wilkerson saying that the cia were planning to do just that., keep in mind this man was Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State at the time of this video, which predates the explosion of uighur content online. Prior to the US suddenly having such an interesting in the rights of Uighurs it is also notable that the US was literally bombing them.
Sure. Average people do all the time just look it up on Weibo. You could also just look up the culture of protest in the country (extremely frequent, activism is high, just not activism to literally overthrow the country). Gov does not give a shit about whether the average person disagrees with the government on various issues unless you happen to be a celebrity or millionaire/billionaire. The government cracks down extremely hard on the bourgeoisie and its representatives.
If you're looking for more realistic ways to interpret the DPRK then I think you should look at things like food security figures, improvements in agriculture, or for living standards look at things like the smartphone market and percentage of ownership. 50% or more of the country owns a smartphone, 6-8 million have subscriptions to services. This kind of figure will give you something closer to an idea of what reality is without the mess of propaganda from all sides. It's the kind of figure you can relate more closely to yourself, and to where western countries were 10-15 years ago. Here in the UK for example 2003-2005 we had roughly 50% smartphone ownership in the country.
/s right?
Right?
Yeah, absolutely unthinkable that people would trust their government when it does such horrible things like lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, building world class infrastructure, providing people with jobs, housing, education, and healthcare. These things must seem like absolute horrors to a typical westerner.
A high trust government usually reflected on people's behaviour and general society. You do not need a poll to say your citizens trust you. Paradoxically, if you get a survey in China asking if you approval/disapprove of the government, they will say approve and if anyone been to China you will know why. Talking about the government in China is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down on, especially if you are non-Chinese looking expat.
Polls are meaningless in China, the same attitudes during the Gang of Four (四人帮) still exists today. If Xi was ousted today, the opinion polls will change from 95% approval ratings to calling for his execution.
We seen this During the later stages of the Cultural Revolution, Chinese citizens continued to exhibit strong support for the Gang of Four and the Cultural Revolution. It is likely that if a poll had been conducted at that time, their approval rating would have been close to 100%.
However, following the events of the October 1976 coup, the Chinese people once again rejoiced and celebrated coup and death sentence (which was changed to life imprisonment later on) of the Gang of Four. An eminent writer, Guo Moruo (郭沫若), who had previously expressed admiration for Jiang Qing just a few months earlier, found himself criticizing her within the same year.
This pattern of shifting loyalties and public sentiments was not unique to this period alone. In fact, prior to the rise of the Gang of Four, similar instances occurred involving prominent figures like Lin Biao (林彪) and Liu Shaoqi (刘少奇).
How many Chinese people have you talked to?
Considering I lived in Chongqing for 3 years. Lots. However I kept my politics extremely private. From 12 years to now I saw China slowly turning into a black hole information.
So, what you're saying is that you lived in China for 3 years and never actually discussed politics with people living there.