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this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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Trump also ordered a few coup attempts that we'll learn about soon enough.
People need to stop acting like he was "at least good in terms of foreign policy."
They never are.
Qasem Solemani
Most ppl forgot about that because covid came soon after.
I could very easily see Hilary pulling this trigger (or Obama or Bush for that matter).
If anything, I suspect Trump mismanagement of the occupation probably was what opened up diplomacy with Iran wide enough to convince Solemani that a visit was possible. The bombing (of Iraq's own airfield!) was just Trump trying to slam the door shut after the horse had left.
Obama had reached a diplomatic agreement with Iran on their nuclear program; Trump was a big step backwards there, as he was on Cuba. Even with the DPRK I don't think anything substantive materialized.
Looking at everything reasonable in Trump's favor, he was just as bad as Obama on foreign policy. "He was actually OK there" has always been more contrarian than anything.
But he held the line on Iraq and even opened up fronts in Syria. If the Iranian military left itself exposed like that? Obama might be willing to take the shot, if he thought he could advance his position further in the region.
Obama was trying to carrot the Cubans toward privatization after decades of stick. But he was just as invested in an eventual corporate takeover as Clinton or Carter.
Trump was a flailing putz who did everything for attention. His moves weren't strategic past the next headline.
He was worse in strategy, which made him better in consequence. He undermined international institutions and tried to grift NATO states. He made catty remarks and empty threats to look tough, without having any kind of interest in a protracted commitment to any one conflict.
A Trump mix up at the White House would force another big wave of resignations and bring in a bunch of new grifters and know nothings.
Whether that would be better or worse is forever up to debate. But it will erode US statecraft faster than a stable continuous second term.
I don't give Trump credit for accidentally harming stuff like NATO because the same rash decisions that did that almost started war with Iran (twice, actually, if I'm remembering correctly). Accidental good is also good you can't count on going forward.
Off the top of my head... Venezuela, Cuba, Hong Kong? I'm sure there are more.
Bolivia. I was there.
Right, I forgot about that one
I just assume the CIA brings any president paperwork for this kind of stuff and says “sign this or you’re dead.” Like there will never be an American president that doesn’t do this kind of stuff. American foreign policy is inherently hostile by nature.
feel like they screen candidates well enough that they don't have to threaten them.
for trump they could be like "hey wanna order some cool guy james bond shit?" and he'd involuntarily get sharpie everywhere
Exactly, like I’m not defending any presidents, but I’m kinda surprised at some of the comments that make it seem as if the president is coming up with the foreign policy themselves lmfao no. All that stuff is being done by the CIA and more importantly all the CIA adjacent organizations like the NED and others. By the time it gets to the president for signing so much work has been put into it that there is no way it ISNT going to be signed off on. The president is just a stamp to legitimize the appearance of civilian leadership. A good example would be Eisenhower, who directly called out the military industrial complex as a phenomenon and a problem that goes against his own personal beliefs of what is good for America before it really had a chance to take off. Did he try anything to stop it? Nope, still signed whatever they put in front of him.
He basically gave that speech 3 days before leaving office lol
Correct, but it’s something he was obviously aware of his entire presidency and he personally felt Americas best interest was not in the hands of the MIC. His personal feelings didn’t matter because he was smart enough to know if he doesn’t sign on the dotted line he’s fucked.
Don't be silly, they're all committed imperialists.
This is silly lol. Why would they need to threaten the president? What about the CIA’s agenda do these people disagree on? Perhaps who and when to kill, but ultimately someone will die. Even JFK was still a piece of shit imperialist. He just stepped on the wrong foot trying to do it His Way
They do bring paperwork to the president though. It’s a kill list, and they get to choose who to kill from that list. They reportedly nudged Trump into selecting high priority targets, but Trump supposedly only checked big name ISIS targets to boost ratings
Kinda answered your own question - it doesn't have to be an ideological disagreement, even if they just get too uppity about doing things their way, the hammer comes down.
The only way he's "good in foreign policy" is by taking America's mask fully off and showing the world the ugly truth. Whether they believe it or not is up to them
I know many Chinese people that turned very anti-American after 2015 to 2016.
I'm not aware of anyone here that says Trump was "good" on foreign policy. The critique is that he's a substantially less effective steward of the imperial machine and even does accidental propaganda work against it.
Which, of course, is untrue.
That would be an unpopular opinion among most people here, "of course".
Who cares what the popular opinion here is? It’s wrong lmao
The point is in the air quotes, as parent was (and is) being condescending and escalatory rather than engage in a comradely way. My hope was that by pointing out they were being condescending to more than just myself might give them pause and to change the way they were interacting. As you can see, that strategy of mine didn't work lol.
Your question is about relevance, and I actually agree. That was actually my point in its own less direct way. My grandparent reply was to say they were mischaracterizing a sentiment but the response didn't actually address that, so I drew attention to the misdirection. I think I was unclear about that being the point, though.
Untrue to what degree though? One of his biggest scandals was attempting to refuse military aid to Ukraine in an effort to get dirt on Biden. Ultimately ineffective, but his attempted actions in this scenario prove the point.
The nicest thing you can say about Donald Trump is that he's completely mercenary.
He'll turn on a dime if he sees advantage in a position and there's nobody he won't stab in the back given half an opportunity.
Biden is a fixture of US Foreign Policy. Trump is a Wild Card.
No, Trump is very much a fixture of the faction that backs him.
He'll just do what his donors or base wants. That's it.
IMHO.
This isn’t 1991 USSR. He’s not stripping copper out the US and selling it to foreigner investors. He’ll scam, sure, but it’s wild how people on here seem to subscribe to Great Man Theory more than America’s enemies. Even Assad said that it doesn’t matter who the fuck the president is because as long as the institutions retain the same agenda, nothing will change.
Trump being loud and threatening NATO allies doesn’t do anything to change reality. The people with actual power, the security and military apparatus, will not let it happen. NATO won’t collapse because BRUMPF called Europe freeloaders or shit on American soldiers. It won’t change reality because he pulls out of a war because there are still hundreds of spec ops and CIA goons deep inside the country, and he’ll reroute those soldiers to another war next door.
The US is having trouble diplomatically because of the inherent racist and profit-driven nature of its ideology, and it came into full swing when COVID was introduced and the invasion of the Ukraine
glances at US Steel being sold to Japan
Maybe not literally. Not yet, anyway. But we're getting real close.
It does. It kills initiatives under prior administrations. It alienates the people who have to physically pull the "Yes" lever in other countries. And, frankly, the endless "Trump is Putin's best friend! Trump is on Russia's side! Trump ❤️ Putin kissing in a tree!" agitprop is going to have some kind of effect on how people take Trump's picks for ambassadors and Sec State head when it comes time to do international diplomacy. That, plus his habit of fucking around with state secrets, means you can't be Olaf Sholtz in Germany and glad-hand the guy who everyone in your country thinks is a hand-puppet for the FSB.
That's not a problem with France or the UK or Germany or Japan. Not normally. But you have to tack on all the "Fifth Column!" hysteria that's been building around this campaign. How do you integrate with the Five Eyes network when your main go-betweens with the CIA and NSA are a bunch of Groypers?
So many people let “at least he’s funny” transform into “actually he’s unironically the harm reduction candidate!”
It’s such a bizarre take that only people who get their news from irony accounts believe. They let him say and do whatever up until it actually starts affecting the security state.
He’ll type up hot shit on twitter about nuking North Korea or Syria or Iran, then a few moments later he’ll appear in a video where he speaks slowly, properly in whole sentences, in a normal voice and volume, without going on tangents and insulting people, and explaining the situation without making threats. You think that was voluntary? It’s all a wrestling match. Just don’t break kayfabe
This is one way people dig themselves into silly ultra-left positions, too.
Ultra-leftism is rife on Twitter especially.
You get takes like "Trump good actually."
Trump killed Soleimani for no reason
He was good in the sense that he was an incompetent uninterested imperialist, not because he was actually good. That's the argument people (like me) make.