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this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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And Jewish people are a monolith and all support Israel? Ironically this is closer to actual antisemitism than someone who hates Israel as a state because of their horrendous actions.
Again, as a monolith? Like "they" all hold this position? Hopefully you see the issue here. Many jewish people absolutely do not support Israel at all
This article discusses the issue. We have to assume that this recent bout of war crimes has made less jewish people supportive of Israel as well.
As the article says, they are not a monolith
So someone said, "why does Biden keep supporting Bibi?"
You said
But now it's
Which is thankfully no longer antisemitic but then now we're back to the original problem: how is that worth it for Biden?
But we just went over that. The Jewish community has a plurality of opinions, and even though it may be more likely that they support Israel in general, that doesn't mean they (e.g.) don't want a ceasefire or think that weapons sales should stop during a plausible genocide. Assuming otherwise is antisemitic, unless you have evidence?
As for the partner in the middle East I really think this point is bullshit. Why have a partner that's been committing war crimes for 5 straight months now? Well longer, but you know. Does the US actually have bad relations with Jordan, for example? Plus their influence in the region would grow substantially if they openly opposed the apartheid state (which basically all of the middle East doesn't like) and sent that money to someone else instead. I'm sorry I know this is the common wisdom but I really don't get it. "No influence whatsoever" is obviously taking it too far, but even the general point I find questionable
Doubt. Can you be an apartheid state and democratic at the same time? Can you approve illegal settlements in Palestinian territories while giving the Palestinians no say in this and truly be a democracy? Seems suspect at best.
The US also clearly does not agree with this. So I would say their values do not appear to be so close either.
I'm also not sure that siding with a country that is hated in the entire region is the best defense against Iran. Would that not push everyone else in the region to a more anti-US position? I'm sure the US would deter Iran from becoming a nuclear superpower just fine even without Israel's "support" (in quotation marks because I am not sure what exactly they do for the US specifically).
Well we agree here at least, lol. Not "ideal," yes quite. Ideally we wouldn't be starving children to death but boy aren't you happy the Iranians are slightly less bullish, maybe.
I think the US has good relations with Jordan though? Also I haven't heard about the recent thing with Iran.
But overall, I think it's questionable at best to support Israel right now because of "Iran" when you know full well that any weapons you send will be used to kill innocents within a few days. Why not support Israel against Iran, when relevant, but not support them when they're doing a genocide?
It seems so basic I feel like I'm going insane. Are these the people you share values with, seriously? Yeah you're a monster but the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.
The US seems to be changing tack on this and my only complaint is that it didn't happen months ago. Too many people have died and too much suffering has taken place. Israel deserves to be a pariah state
Meanwhile, Jews in America be like:
Please, please put your mask back on
Jews are not Israel. Israel is not Jews. Stop being a Zionist freak. No one cares what the makeup of the US is. Jews aren't supposed to support genocide, so if anything, there being many Jews in the US should mean Netty's behavior should be even less agreeable.
Jews "aren't supposed" to support or oppose anything as a monolith. That's just racial essentialism.
Pretty sure plenty of Jews preach against genocide... Or are you saying Jews are OK with genocide as a religion?
Either way ... very dumb.
I'm not collecting all Jewry and describing what they do or do not believe, for one! I'm saying that being Jewish isn't only about participating in a religion. And I'm also saying, which underlines my previous points, not all Jews think the same or believe the same thing.
Are you Jewish? Are you Palestinian?
To disagree with the basic point that all people, regardless of classification, don't believe one single thing is ridiculous. To what are you even trying to retort?
There’s a difference between believing in Israel as a state and believing that Israel is doing the right thing politically.
I don’t think you are arguing in good faith.
Anytime there is an argument that begins "everyone believes X" you are wrong right out of the gate. I'd imagine that if you were to poll Jews, MANY of them would support Israel, but there is no way possible each and every one would. Not all Americans support the American government, so why would Israel be any different?
I disagree actually, at least for the US. American Jews tend to be way more liberal than Israelis. I think the largest group of supporters would actually be Christians because of the fucking nutty evangelicals.
Or among Christian evangelicals, actually.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/
Not only that, most Christian groups seem to back it, evangelical or not.
That makes logical sense to me.
If I understand correctly, you're noting that the Jewish people in America lean supportive of Israel and because they comprise a larger population pool than the vehemently strong pro-Palestinians, Biden must then carefully toe the line between the two groups to court the largest % of votes to ensure the far-worse guy doesn't get in power?
"ironically" it's actually Christian far right nationalist evangelicals (a bunch of self contradicting terms if you ask me) who support Israel most in USA, not Jews living in USA (who often left or refused to move there for a reason!).