125
submitted 7 months ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/news@hexbear.net
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

We The People have the power to criminalize the ownership of more than $1 billion dollars of wealth.

We have the power to re-establish punitively high, confiscatory top-tier tax rates on income, forcing the highest earners to spend their earnings, or lose them.

We have the power to create, and phase in a progressive tax on SEC registered securities. A wealth tax. We can confiscate the shares of publicly traded companies held by individuals, and turn them over to IRS liquidators. They can dispose of those shares by selling them on the open market in small lots, no more than 5% of the total traded volume.

We have the power to drive the wealth of the richest among us out of the market, making room for the rest of us to invest our own capital, and more equitably share our societal gains.

The cure for mass suicide is the same as it is for most of today's problems: A new French Revolution, where we strip the first and second estates of their power to continue fucking us over and making us want to kill ourselves.

[-] InappropriateEmote@hexbear.net 58 points 7 months ago

I am totally with you in the broad sentiment you're expressing, but almost everything you said is ultimately just bandaids that still don't address the real deep, systemic problem, and this mode of production that will always reward greed. You were most onto something towards the end. But rather than a new French Revolution, which just sets things up for this to happen all over again, how about a new Bolshevik Revolution that aims not just to try to do capitalism more fairly, but reorganizes society in such a way as to eliminate poverty and all need in what is already a post-scarcity human epoch.

We the people have the power to seize the means of production. We the people can set society on the road to the complete abolition of class.

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 7 months ago

But rather than a new French Revolution, which just sets things up for this to happen all over again, how about a new Bolshevik Revolution that aims not just to try to do capitalism more fairly, but reorganizes society in such a way as to eliminate poverty and all need in what is already a post-scarcity human epoch.

Basically, because socialism fundamentally requires centralized control, and I don't trust centralized control. I fully expect corruption and greed to exist, and to gravitate toward power.

I don't trust society not to deliberately appoint a tyrannical megalomaniac: I've seen them do it entirely too often.

[-] yuritopia@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

You say "centralized control" but that doesn't really mean anything. After all, the capitalist class already have centralized their power, and their class interests mean they structure every feature of both business and government to keep it that way. Socialism, as defined by a dictatorship of the proletariat, upends this class dynamic entirely. So no, socialism does not "require centralized control" just because a classless society would utilize central planning efficiency to meet societal goals. This is fundamentally, scientifically different from the current system of bourgeoisie control.

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 points 7 months ago

After all, the capitalist class already have centralized their power

Please elaborate. I am not sure what you mean when you say that the capitalist class has centralized their power.

[-] CindyTheSkull@hexbear.net 12 points 7 months ago

You're the one who said:

socialism fundamentally requires centralized control, and I don't trust centralized control.

What did you mean when you said that? There is no way in which socialism "requires" anything like this that capitalism also doesn't require in terms of controlling the population. At least in socialism the population has control over the population rather than a small elite class (the bourgeoisie aka capitalist class aka owning class) as in capitalism. If you are talking about a planned economy, then again, capitalism does this too and you need look no further than fucking amazon as an example. The economy is just planned around gaining more capital for a small class instead of actually serving the needs of people as in socialism.

Finally,

I don't trust society not to deliberately appoint a tyrannical megalomaniac: I've seen them do it entirely too often.

No, you haven't. You've been told that happened as a means of propaganda to make sure you and everyone like you (people not part of the owning class) think exactly what you do now think "ooooooh noes scary socialism always turns ebil dictatortotship!" Show us what socialist societies (AES) "appointed a tyrannical megalomaniac" and we'll show you a load a bullshit that has been force-fed to the people of a capitalist society ruled by the real tyrannical megalomaniacs: the capitalist class.

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 7 months ago

No, you haven't

I didn't say socialism appoints them. I said society. Socialism is not a prophylaxis against society fucking itself over by declaring itself subject to a tyrant.

[-] robinn_IV@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

With socialism comes the first mass state and genuine rule by the majority. You can't just generalize "society" as having a tendency of "fucking itself over" when this "society" is ruled by completely different classes depending on the level of development of the productive forces.

[-] yuritopia@hexbear.net 11 points 7 months ago

What I mean by this is that there is no choice for capitalists but participate in our economic system. If a "nice" business owner tries to be fair to their workers, give them the full value of their labor, etc., then they will be out-competed by a company that does not. As long as workers continue working for a company (no strike or anything), then the safest course for a business to take is maximum profit and wage exploitation. This way, they keep wages down, their shareholders are happy, etc. Now, there's always a balancing act they put on so that workers don't realize this, be that platitudes like game rooms at tech start-ups, all the way to traditional methods like raising wages.

Because of this, businesses will naturally gravitate toward anti-worker practice. As late-stage capitalism progresses, this becomes even more brutal. Now the biggest companies maintain their competitive advantage by lobbying, PACs, propaganda, owning the news stations. Joe Biden and Donald Trump both have lavish dinners with donors and business owners who discuss politics and national policy. And because these business owners are from Microsoft and Raytheon, they further America's goals (substitute America for any Capitalist country too). The capitalist class has centralized power because any individual in the class who tries to steer policy toward worker protections and limits on their own class are quickly out-competed.

I'm basing this analysis on some of the later chapters of Capital like Vol. 1, Ch. 25, Section 2 (I skimmed this just now to make sure I could word this response correctly). I do recommend the entirety of Capital for a scientific breakdown of worker power and commodity production. Hexbear has a reading group for the book going on now.

[-] robinn_IV@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Read this

TL;DR: The growth of banks concentrates capital more closely, and also development causes the creation of truces between capitalists and mixes capitalist control between industries.

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (22 replies)
this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
125 points (100.0% liked)

news

23532 readers
636 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS