1125
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
1125 points (98.9% liked)
World News
39005 readers
930 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Lmao. Probably not gonna happen but based af
I think it's a great target to aim for. That's an unfathomable income to most people, so it should at least have popular support
It will not. People will vehemently defend the rich.
Some will, but there's an ever growing movement against gross wealth inequality. When simply buying groceries becomes a struggle for more and more people, that's usually a telltale sign that the working class is going to start getting angry at the insatiable greed of those at the top.
If there ever will be fight in line for bread, french will do french thing
The most likely thing that will happen is the rich renouncing citizenship and leaving the country.
Renouncing voting rights? Good.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like this too, but let's be realistic. The rich wield political influence through their funding of various media and propaganda groups, which tends to have a big effect on a population. Then again this is France, and maybe my American cynicism is bleeding through...
Taxes don't work like that. It's only the portion above a level that's taxed at that level.
In the US you could absolutely fall into a new range where certain deductions no longer apply, so you could make that extra little bit of income, then lose out on deductions totaling more than your increased income.
It’s not as simple as the progressive tax brackets look at first glance.
That’s what the standard deduction is for unless you are talking about a very narrow range of only freelancers/business owners
There are other deductions that no longer come into play after a certain income. If I recall correctly, mortgage interest, child tax credits, and some medical deductions.
OK but owning a house and having children are both choices, so I’m not exactly sure I see what’s so unfair about not having those certain deductions. Medical is the only one I agree is legitimate here so fair point
Not sure what choice has to do with what I was saying. Of course those are choices, but my point was that there are certain inflection points with income where post-tax income can actually go down.
I just don’t equate not receiving tax deductions with being taxed more, especially when the deductions aren’t available to everyone (i.e. home ownership and kids). There is a fair bit of nuance here being glossed over IMO.
Tax brackets don't lower income from the bracket before them. If you had 123net/177gross, and got a raise to 200 gross, you would only pay 45% on that 23k difference between 177 and 300. Thus going to 137net/200 gross.
Progressive taxation so nothing lowers your net income. That scale seems quite sensible really, and you'd even have more than the 100k because again progressive taxation. And honestly 100k net is already an obscene amount of money for a single person.
Worked fine in America during it's "great" days that all these Trump voters seem to yearn for
Funny how they want to 'mAkE aMeRiCa GrEaT aGaIn' but don't want any of the policies that made America great, just the shitty racist ones that made life awful for non-white males. I'm just waiting for them to further limit it by land holding or wealth at some point..... Really take us back to when we were 'really great'
That was only on earned income and with a starting point so high that at some point only one person ever reached it.
That was before the explosion of jet travel. Now the rich fly around in their private jets to operate their businesses all over the world. They take advantage of the fact that governments can’t coordinate their taxes very well.
Love it. Wealthy in France is 200k, anyone who makes over 400k is uberwealthy
~~400k is a monthly salary of 33000€ You can live very comfortably from a tenth of that where i live in germany, which is a notoriously expensive city. So yeah even if you just barely go over the limit and have to live with a tenth of those 400k, you would still be completely fine.~~
~~This is all ignoring already saved up wealth ofcourse.~~
TLDR im dumb
It doesn't even work like that: only the "extra" revenue above 400k would be subject to the 90% tax, everything below that would still be subject to standard tax rates
I wonder what the upper limit of the 400k tax bracket is?
Progressive taxation doesn't work like that, the 90% tax bracket in this case would only apply to the income someone earned over €400K. Everything they earn under that amount is taxed at much lower rates, the same rates as people who have lower income
The current max tax rate in france is 45% + 3% for the portion exceeding 250k. (4% for exceeding 500k)
So ignoring the 3%, at 400k you would be taxed at 45% leaving you with 220k?
And at 1M it would be those 220k€ + (remaining 600k€ @ 90% = 60k)
So a total of 280k€ after tax?
I dont earn anywhere near that much so i never bothered to understand how this stuff actually works.
The math is a bit more complicated since there are multiple tax brackets below 400k, but that's the general idea yeah
Yes. That is the correct math.
Some tax codes have deductions and such, so the actual amount kept could be a little higher.
You are a saint in my eyes.
The NFP proposal would make the top 10% French pay more tax and the rest 90% would pay same or less tax. They want to introduce more tax "slices" to make it adjust more progressively with higher income.
Yea 400k won’t happen, I could see something in the low millions being palatable to populace at large
Seriously, that's how much a doctor makes while carrying $300k in student loans. Yes, these are US numbers, and I'm sure France has both lower salaries and much lower or no student loans. But the point stands that $400k is a really high salary but not necessarily wildly wealthy if you are paying more in student loans than you do for your house.
What this will accomplish is force newly rich people to stay in their class while the wealthy class people get no change at all since they don't have a high salary. The wealthy stay wealthy while the poor have no chance to become wealthy, only merely rich.
Student loans are tax deductible (in the US at least). So if a large portion of your salary is paying off loans you don’t get taxed on that portion at all.
Only if you make below $85k/year. People making $400k aren't able to deduct the payments on their $300k loans. Also, the limit is $2500/year in interest. People with $300k in loans pay that much every other month in interest.
Still good though, imo the win is that a big chunk of representatives are saying this is what the country wants.
I hope it gets done so they can fund social programs. But the rich will flee to Germany
Even if they do implement such tax, I wonder how many ways there are for rich people to avoid paying those taxes. They tend to be very good at skirting around such things. They even pay people who are professionals in the field of tax-around-skirting.
Maybe I’m just not used to the income needed in major cities in France, but that seems like pretty high tax rate for the income in major cities like Lyons or Paris. Can someone give me a little context? Does France do graduated brackets like the US? If that’s the case then I could see this being pretty fair.
They do. Someone with a salary of €400,000 would take home approximately €242,000 after income tax.
According to The EIU, the cost of living in Paris is similar to San Francisco.
That seems like quite a bit of one’s income, but on the flipside France has a lot more social services and such than we get here in the US, so I guess I have to consider that side of it.
Is there any place that does taxes without brackets, just flat "pass this number and suddenly lose half of everything"? Does that even exist outside the imagination of Americans who have never understood or looked at taxes? Brackets should be the definition of income taxes, is it not? It's not an economic tariff applied regardless the volume of merchandise passing a frontier.
Jesus dude calm down I am just asking what the basic structure of the French tax system looks like. I don’t live in France, there is not a whole lot of reason for me to know.
It's still just a fraction of the top 1%. Even $400,000 in the US would put you in the top 1%, nobody needs more than this amount of money, ever.