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this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2024
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I wonder what would have happened had they done the same thing with Islam.
But seriously, I don't think people realise that having a drag queen re-enactment of the last supper, one of the most sacred scenes in the Bible, is simply going to embolden Christians more to push away any form of integration or acceptance with the LGBT community. Like, doing stuff like this is basically asking for a negative pushback.
There have been countless spoofs of that painting in cartoons, commercials, and other popular media for a very long time. Let’s not pretend it’s “sacrilege” the Christians are clutching their pearls at now.
Generally stuff like this commonly gets a backlash, but basically everyone I know of was watching the opening ceremony as many do every year, so obviously people are going to notice when you mock Christianity on a global scale when everyone is watching
Spoofs of The Last Supper
This is not new. So again I say, let's not pretend it's "sacrilege" that's actually the offense here.
You're assuming that these spoofs aren't already offensive
You're assuming we should care about offending followers of a religion that preaches bigotry and denying reality.
Then why should we care about offending those who not only deny the true reality, but are constantly attacking us for our beliefs, wanting us to change our message to fit their worldview and their morality which is subjective and push for previously unthinkable things to become more and more acceptable every decade?
If we truly hated you, we wouldn't be telling you about Who we believe is the way to eternal life. We'd keep it as a secret to ourselves so you can suffer for eternity.
Honestly we wish you would. We already know what you have to offer. I'd say a great deal of us started out on the religious side of the fence, but eventually something opened our eyes to the EXTREME unlikelihood of any of it being true. And if it's true, the god of the Bible (and most other gods honestly) are assholes, and not worth worship.
Extreme unlikelihood? The extreme unlikelihood is the properties of the universe being so randomly perfect to spawn a planet and life, as well as the New Testament and Jesus being one of the best documented figures of antiquity.
Using the claim as proof of the claim is still an unsustainable argument. Find really old book (translated dozens of times by people with agendas), book must be true because it's really old.
You know what's even older? Norse mythology.the epic of Gilgamesh. Etc.
1, we have the original text so the translation thing is irrelevant, 2, what has Norse Mythology and the epic of gilgamesh got to do with Jesus?
Yes, some of it. Have you read it? Or read the scholars direct translations? I have read parts to contrast how the modern translations differ from the original intent. And they are often quite significant. For instance, the idea of Hell does not exist in the original texts. When you die, and you don't go to paradise, you just end. You go to oblivion, not endless torment. The idea of torturous hell was Dante's doing, and religions ran with it. Satan isn't even really a thing in the original Bible, but interpretations could be made.
I added those in to the conversation because apparently the only thing that makes the Bible legitimate is it's oldness. Both those mythologies predate Christianity and the Bible.
In fact it's not too difficult to see where the Bible mythos stole many ideas from existing religions.
Side notes:
Due to how much of an asshole the Bible God is, I like the interpretation that the Bible God is actually Loki, and had the book made so people thought he was the good guy.
The god of the Bible is a tantrum throwing, overreacting, jealous, hypocritical, and genocidal prick, who doesn't deserve any adulation or worship.
Yes, I regularly read the scholar's direct translations. Jesus' reference to hell is a literal place, especially told from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Satan is also mentioned from Genesis to Revelation and multiple times by Jesus in the New testament. I know this because I have actually read the Bible and not watched tiktoks making up BS. And "I don't like the character of God from my cherrypicking of the Bible" isn't actually a bearing on whether or not He is real.
The Bible's legitimacy isn't in the oldness, it lies within textual criticism and undesigned coincidences, the early Church, tiny details here and there, manuscript comparisons (for example, we have more examples of Jesus written about Him from the time He was on earth than we do about many Historical figures or facts that are seen as factual)
Most historians and scholars agree on the existence of Jesus, and that He was executed under Pontius Pilate and that His grave was found empty. The 12 disciples ended up dying for preaching the idea that He rose from the dead, so it's unlikely that they staged it. They also had nothing to gain from perpetuating a farce like this either. Even non Christian sources outside of the Bible report of Jesus' existence, some even just put His miracles down as "sorcery" instead of slight of hand.
I became a Christian because I realised that the whole death and resurrection of Jesus would have had to be some form of extremely elaborate hoax, and the Four Evangelists and St Paul really believed in what they were writing about to be true.
Please grow up and become a bit more introspective.
The reason you guys always try to proselytize because it earns you points to get into the exclusive sky club. I was once a true believer, and I realized that everyone was out for their own satisfaction and superiority over others who are not in the in club.
It’s your own personal beliefs, don’t try and make anyone else’s. If you truly are a Christian, be more Christian-like.
Christians have caused incredible amounts of damage, in so many awful ways, which always gets the no-true-Scotsman defense. It seems to happen so very often, maybe it’s time to look at why.
“True Reality”… this is a phrase. I’ll tend to see with people who see the world in black-and-white. Like there is only one way to do everything in the world.
I’m not assuming anything. I’m pointing out no one’s made this big of a stink about spoofing this painting before. It’s blatant hypocrisy.
People probably won't make a stink about it as much if it's not shoved in their face on global television. It would be kind of odd for someone to deliberately pursue it just to make a stink about it.
Best. Opening. Ceremony. Ever.
Honestly, I didn't enjoy it until I heard it made so many bigots mad. I much preferred China's in Beijing this last time.
I always find it entertaining when people, voluntarily watching a televized thing, where not watching it is a click of a button away, call it being "Shoved in their faces".
This is always coming from the same people who send out people to literally bug me at my own home about how I'm going to burn in hell forever or something.
"Hell" as broadly believed, isn't ever actually described as threatened in the Bible. The popular version came from Dante... WHICH WAS A STORY.
Hell is mentioned plenty of times in the Bible, even by Jesus Himself
Mentioned, maybe, described? Never.
There is a big wide world outside of the United States and sometimes satire is appreciated. If some rube in one of the flyover states gets butthurt then... Anyway...
What's this got to do with the United States?
Nobody outside the United States would give a shit about a drag reenactment of the last supper..
TIL The UK is part of the United States. I have seen plenty of Europeans pointing it out all over social media.
Not saying that nutjobs don't exist in other countries.
People who get upset about trifles that don't matter can appear anywhere. But mostly in the US.
It's just a really weird double standard that we see popping up
Yeah! Everybody knows Jesus didn't hang out with the people society rejected and denigrated! He certainly wasn't hanging out with prostitutes or poor people or outcasts! He was all about maintaining the social order and keeping the Pharisees happy! That's why he was nice enough to help the money changers set back up in the temple after some whack job came in and tossed their tables all over the place!
Next you'll start in on some leftist propaganda about how people deserve to eat and have medical care. You think Jesus would, what, hand you some fish and bread and heal your leprosy? You better be able to pay! Inns ain't cheap around here!
I did hear of a pretty reliable source of silver, though..
Sincerely, what are you yapping about?
I'm implying that Jesus would be more likely to hang out at a drag show than with the people who have a problem with them.
And many at that drag show would probably call Him a bigot
Nah, sweetie. That ain't it.
You're the one who's so into the guy, you should know better.
Know better and do what exactly? What am I wrong about?
Fuck it, I'll bite. Y'all are obsessed with Old Testament ceremonial law. You're basically Pharisees. The only mention of anything remotely approaching anything we'd lump under the queer umbrella in the New Testament is when Paul is describing how the Romans are different from the Hebrews and happens to mention the sexual nature of some of the relationships common between Roman men. It's a discussion of contrast, not a condemnation.
Let's look at Jesus' track record, shall we?
Here's a guy who famously has no patience for the status quo or for authoritarian hierarchy. He literally says he came with a flaming sword and his opponents were the people in charge who were obsessed with meaningless rules and deference to corrupt power. To put it in Buddhist terms, he was trying to shake up the tendency to stare mindlessly at the finger instead of looking at the moon. I know; just Google it.
Dude was a proto-anarchist. He would have had zero patience for your hand wringing about people wearing clothes that you don't like. He probably would be in this thread giving you shit if he wasn't too busy with feet on the ground trying to shake down the establishment.
I have never understood how y'all are so into this guy who's about radical autonomy and acceptance and universal love and forgiveness and yet you seem to entirely miss the plot and literally laser focus on the rules used in the same story to justify nailing him to piece of wood.
Jesus would probably be at a drag show. Just not one for rich tourists who care more about spectacle than the negative impact of the Olympics on literally every host city.
He'd be condemning bigotry, not standing beside it.
Let's look for some Jesus quotes then, shall we?
Matthew 16:24 ESV "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
John 4:16-18 ESV Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.” The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no husband’; for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true.”
John 8:3-11 ESV The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."
Revelation 22:12-16 ESV “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
What Jesus preached was radical forgiveness - which isn't the same as radical acceptance. Jesus forgives those who resolve to abandon their sin, no matter their past, or how many times they fail. What Jesus doesn't do is encourage or affirm their sin. But He gives encouragement for one to get up and start anew. His death and resurrection isn't a licence to sin- it's an escape from it.
You're failing to show that what you consider 'sin' is something he'd have found meaningful. Ceremonial law doesn't count unless you're also ditching shellfish and polyfibers just as vehemently as your little pet queerphobia
I never mentioned ceremonial law. I'm talking about sin.
Which you equate a drag show with how, exactly? Without Leviticus?
Edit: Oh. Okay. Having finally seen images of the show, this wasn't even about the last supper. It's about the Feast of Dionysus. Literally had nothing at all to do with Christianity.
What's this got to do with Leviticus?
I sympathize with your situation, but why bringing Islam here, did something offensive towards Christianity happen in Qatar's WC ?
What would happen if they did it with Islam? The same mental illness but instead with more violence.
I mean south park had to take an episode down making fun of Islam because of death threats.
I don't seem to recall them having to do it for any of the countless episodes (rightfully) making fun of Christianity. So there's definitely something differnt going on there.
My thing is though if these Almighty gods (or the almighty god depending on who you ask) really didn't like to be made fun of couldn't they just, you know, take care of that?
I mean hey man one fiery head in the sky speaking demands for like, 20 seconds of time is all it would take. Boom. Suddenly everyone is on the same page.
But nah, god is a trickster and wants to make you pass tests for his amusement like a rat in a lab. Difference being the almighty god of course knows the results of the test anyway so really just makes you do it for his own enjoyment.
Religion is a disease. It deserves to be made fun of.
They will take care of it. The Lord laughs at the wicked, for He knows their day is coming.
Also the fiery demands thing won't work, as God was literally leading the Israelites out of Egypt like that, then Moses was like "I'm gonna climb this mountain, don't worship false gods when I'm gone" and guess what they did
Again, I don't know what tests you are talking about - you aren't saved by your works but by a relationship with Christ alone.
If it's okay to make fun of diseases, then you're opening a can of worms here.
sure I know the story of that book humans wrote and what it says and I'm telling you that's wrong.
If a fiery head appeared in the sky and rumbled the earth with his mighty voice and demands and every camera and human eye saw it on the earth at the same time (I mean it is God right? Should be doable) then nah, no one is gonna dispute that.
You're taking stories that have never actually happened and saying they are the truth. I could do the same with the hundreds of religious texts that predate the bible by centuries but that wouldn't make that true either.
Also, if god knows that a person will remain wicked forever why does he keep them here to live a full life? And in turn, if he thinks they might change wouldn't that be a test?
People believe the earth is flat despite seeing pictures of it from space lmao. People also smoke cigarettes knowing it's going to ruin their lives and people also destroy their lives with drugs and alcohol.
People also leave their kids alone with priests despite how many of them rape children.
And also with teachers, too. People do stupid things
I love how you equate these things which people do because it makes them feel good to a giant head of fire in the sky lmao. One of those isn't like the other.
And as far as the flat earthers go, exactly. That's the same sort of blind belief that is at play with religion except one can actually be disproven.
Just seems like this god dude could sort a lot of shit out and end the pain and suffering in the world but doesn't do it for some reason. And yes I know I know, some woman ate an apple and then some dude did too so that's why we're all tortured forever.
What an awesome god.
We're all rebellious towards God- Many reject Him and He respects their decision
As always, how convenient.