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this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
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Microblog Memes
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The underlying point is the same. Bootleggers were providing what the people wanted and cops were in the way because ACAB. That's the core of it.
I'll remind you that prohibition required a Constitutional amendment, the idea was very popular.
Popular amongst Protestant busybodies with more zeal than sense and outsized influence on politicians, sure, but not necessarily the population in general.
I'll in turn remind you that it became so unpopular that they passed a new amendment to get rid of it, the only time that ever happened.
It was popular for a reason people don't understand now: women were getting the shit beaten out of them by their drunken husbands. So a huge number of people, especially women, thought prohibition would stop that. Unfortunately, it just created a whole new kind of violence without reducing the domestic violence.
But the cause was a lot more noble than people give it credit for.
A lot of people don't know that Abraham Lincoln was a big proponent of prohibition. It was seen by progressives as an important step to move society forward.
They thought wrong. Typical of conservatives to blame something external and simple for a societal problem rooted in toxic gender roles and family structures.
Except for the fact that there's nothing noble about jumping to conclusions and trying to solve the only tangentially related problems of some by depriving everyone else of something that most of them enjoyed more or less responsibly.
On the contrary: we still understand that domestic violence is awful and we now also understand that alcohol doesn't in itself cause it.
are you seriously blaming conservatives for something that the progressives of the time championed?
The "progressives" of the time were quite conservative, yes.
Scapegoating a chemical compound for problems caused by toxic gender roles and social ills wasn't progressive and legislating based on such a colossal misunderstanding of cause and effect rooted in religion, moral panic, and othering is textbook conservatism.
Dude, it was the 1920s. People did not understand that the problem was not alcohol-related. Also, many people, mostly men, did not think there was a domestic violence problem because they thought it was an okay thing to do. You are looking back on it with 2024 knowledge and values.
That's actually my point: they passed major legislation based on a guess not supported by knowledge. People knew THAT is a bad idea in the 1920s (and 1919 when the law was passed), though it seems to have been forgotten in the century since..
I'm fully aware of that. My point is that the people who didn't agree that it was ok was wrong to pass law based on an unproven assumption as to the underlying reasons.
More like 1990s values at the latest. Demagoguery and scapegoat politics haven't gotten the bad rap it deserves in the wider population for a LONG time..
Well some people want kiddie porn and cops are in the way of that too, so probably not the best line of reasoning there.
But trotting out a mountain sized false equivalence is? 🙄
It's not false equivalence, it's negation of your logic, but different.
I might have put down, some people want to get drunk and beat you up, and the police is in the way of that too, now unless you are into that you provably don't want to get beaten up by drunks.
The crime doesn't matter, I choose extreme example to get the point across that your reasoning as to why ACAB is flawed and meaningless point farming.
It very much is. You're equivocating alcohol and child abuse.
Nope. Just because cops arrest child abusers doesn't mean that they're the only answer. In fact, a well-funded social safety net is much better at discovering and stopping it and most if not all other societal, psychological and psychiatric problems than cops will ever be.
Well, at least you got that part right 🤷
Another case of giving cops credit for something that they do by default even though their way of dealing with it is much WORSE than alternative ways less focused on use of force and punishment as a deterrent.
It very much does, as treating every societal problem with the same blunt tool is an awful idea
Overly simplified for the sake of brevity, maybe, but otherwise nope, wrong again.
This might be difficult to understand to someone whose opinions are unpopular because they're bad, but sometimes people express honest opinions that other people agree with, rather than playing pretend for points.
So you genuinely think that all cops are bastards? No nuance, no nothing?
The "good" cops stand up for the same system that shelters, protects, and encourages the bad cops. There's no nuance. It is what it is. Therefore ACAB.
Right, the nuance is that there are bad cops and worse cops. It's not a system that's capable of change from the inside, and will actively fight anyone who tries until they give up, get shuttled away to a place that doesn't matter with no hope of promotion, or even end up dead.
So in your opinion, the cops that bust kiddie porn makers are bad too?
So in your opinion, if a Nazi was to kill a pedophile, they're now a good Nazi?
There is nothing inherently immoral about being a police officer though (as opposed to being a Nazi). Everyone but anarchists understands the need for police officers/"Violence of the state" in some capacity.
If you have 1000 'good' cops and 10 bad cops, and the good cops don't stop the bad cops from being cops, you have 1010 bad cops
Replace cops with "doctors" or "engineers" or literally anything- why do people only make this argument with cops?
If doctors and engineers had years long history of killing and oppressing certain racial groups, people would be up in arms about them too.
But they're not. And when there is a bad doctor or engineer they generally go to jail.
Cops though? They get paid leave and transferred to a new department.
So, 1312
You keep changing the goalposts on me. First of all, doctors DO have a long history of racism. Just look up racism in medicine, there are plenty of examples, including teaching for a long time in medical textbooks that black people don't feel pain as acutely as white people. Then there's also the whole euthanasia thing. In my home state of North Carolina, for decades doctors involuntarily sterilized black (usually homeless) patients. There was a big settlement a few years back.
To this day, black women are way more likely to die in childbirth. The reasons for for that are complicated but it has been suggested that racism is a factor (not taking the complaints and concerns of the women seriously).
I think the medical field has largely cleaned up their act, but they didn't get there by being told that All Doctors are Bastards. They got there by the long, slow, unsexy process of reform.
I am all for police reform. But saying "all cops are bastards" is no more truthful than saying "all doctors are bastards" a century ago.
Lastly, I've got familiy members that are police officers with one being a captain and another that's a doctor.
Take a wild guess which group I like to hang out with when there with friends.
Also, don't say I'm changing the goal posts by talking about doctors when you were literally the one to bring up doctors first haha
ADWB a centery ago. You're right. All Doctors Were Bastards just like 50 years ago. My uncle when he was born he had to go through a major surgery without anesthesia because children don't feel pain.
I specifically brought them up because of how bad they used to be. But like, literally everyone used to be racist so like everyone was bastards back then. Cops just still continue to do it openly.
Yes, there's going to be bad people in every field. Yes, unfortunately today there will be an evil doctor here and there. That's always going to happen.
But you said it yourself. The doctors already went through thier reform so we don't have to hate all of them. They get punished and their license taken away if caught. If that started happening tomorrow with the police I would stop saying ACAB. But you admit yourself it's not like that.
If your society is regulated by Nazis, i blame the entire country and all its citizens.
the collective would have embraced facism and murderous eugenics as guiding principles.
So it is the fault of the citizens, because they created, nurtured, and tolerated an environment to sustain the Nazis.
So all citizens are bad.
I mean yeah people who usually back the blue are usually pieces of shit.
And I say this as someone who's mother was a police officer.
A pig with lipstick is still a fuckin pig
Edit: and honestly, they get a metric fuckton of help from non-profits and the like. Stop romanticizing law enforcement
Do you genuinely think anyone is claiming bad entities never do good things?
So when I pull on a gun on you and take your money, your car, you will definitely not call those goddamn bastards, right? You swear?
Always one of these cucks projecting their cowardice. Don’t worry I won’t punk you for your shit today little man…
What cowardice? Lol
You're not talking to serious people, their anticop mentality stems from.sensoble thoughts like "corrupt cops are bad' and 'the system is often unfair' but spirals into a dogmatic hero fantasy where they get to kill people they dislike and win every gunfight just like the movies of the old west.
Of course those stories of noble outlaws doing right by the people are fantasy and the reality is a mass of cruelty, rape, theft, murder and violence. They have this idea that they'll be the tough guy with a gun who can live life however they please because they don't have compassion for other humans, not the old, sick, weak, and certainly not women, children, or those the work hard to live a good life.
They think that you're weak for wanting an official body who's job it is to enforce the rules of society because they love to imagine themselves as an untouchable hero that doesn't need rules, also they love the idea of people needing them for safety - a woman being able to live somewhat safely through a system of laws and justice upsets them because they'd love to be the strong man with a gun that women have to keep happy and near if they want protection.
Every anarchist autonomous no cops zone instantly gets a gang that act like cops without any of the hard fought and long studied protections for the people - and bigger areas where law governments collapse get lots of these gangs who all fight each other... thousands of years of shitty history lead to the development of established and regulated police forces - yes they're far from perfect but we need to work on improving them, adding oversight and better training, new systems and organizational structures.
Why would I call the cops? To report that I killed someone that tried to rob me? Naw man, I know plenty of places to dump a body where it's not gonna be found for years, if ever. Welcome to Appalachia.
Oh, you think that people that think ACAB aren't armed...?
Haha welcome to Lemmy m8. I've gotten into this exact argument before. I'm all for police reform and I was out there in the George Floyd protests but the hatred of police officers on this platform is absolutely rabid.
Imo, the argument that ACAB because the good ones don't stop the bad ones can be applied to virtually any group of people. So we're all bastards I guess.
No it can't be applied evenly. Cops have legal authority to use force, including lethal force. Name another group of people with that right.
Soldiers.
But anyways, i think it's just as reprehensible for, as an example, an engineer to not report his coworker cutting corners on an infrastructure project that could jeopardize an entire community (maybe he wanted to meet a deadline to make himself look good, maybe he took money under the table from an interested party) as for a cop to not report his coworker who took a bribe from a drug dealer. In both cases, the bystander has equal ability to intervene and potentially save lives. The fact that the police officer has the right to use force as part of their job description isn't really relevant.
What? No, according to international law and the Geneva Conventions, soldiers generally do not have the legal authority to kill a citizen unless that citizen is actively participating in hostilities during a declared war, meaning they are considered a combatant; killing a civilian who is not actively involved in combat would be considered a war crime
You didn't say anything about civilians. And besides, police officers can only use lethal force in either self defense or to protect others. In fact, that's the same standard for "lawful homicide" as literally anyone else.
It sure does.
Well THOSE assholes are not welcome in the hot rod community, so there's that.
Except when it is the cops.