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this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
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And a little more debt for Ukraine.
Lmao, Ukraine is being invaded and the people are being genocided and you're here to talk about financials...
Shouldn't you be off generating fake concern for another atrocity to sway a foreign election or something?
What would you suggest Ukraine do instead?
My point is that this is not a helping hand but a business for the arms dealers.
Okay, again, what would you suggest Ukraine do instead?
.ml want Ukraine to surrender. That's pretry much it.
They don't care about the people
They don't care about the US taxpayer's money
They don't care that the weapon companies profit
They just want russia to win.
"Having a discussion" is just smoke and mirrors with them.
I know, but I like to give them enough rope...
Hey if you care so much about the people of Ukraine why don't you go over there and fight so they don't have to be kidnapped off the street and forced to die at the front?
Ok moron, post that on facebook
huh?
I've heard .ml are eating dogs and fucking bats. Giving everyone the ronies. I saw it on television.
I don't care about ML. What I say is that this is NOT HELPING. It's MAKING A PROFIT on someone in need. Helping would be "I give you the weapons to defend yourself and we will pass the bill to Russia", not this.
hence why we keep giving them massive loans. And sending them old equipment from our military, and sharing intelligence with them, and providing public media support for them as well.
War is more than just capital my friend.
also this is literally what europe is looking to do with their stockpile of frozen russian assets.
I'll believe it when I see it.
well then you'll just have to wait until this war is over i guess.
The sooner, the better.
yeah, that's mostly dependent on US aid going to ukraine though. Ukraine isn't going to take the easy path out of this one.
Why are you pressing that question as if Ukraine is an independent actor?
Because... they are? Unless you share Russia's opinion on the matter.
Why are you refusing to answer the question?
You can't refuse to answer a question that was never directed at you.
The fact that Ukraine is a proxy state is spoken out loud by American politicians as well.
Kayfabe is for the kids.
Please provide evidence for this supposed fact.
Also, Putin doesn't call it a proxy state, he calls it the homeland of the Russian people, which is why he's trying to make it part of Russia.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/top-us-diplomat-fuck-the-eu
Here's an article that you've already had linked to you a thousand times you may hopefully incorporate into your worldview a decade later. The scandal here is that the US is hand picking their preferred puppet leader instead of letting the EU have a say.
He did in his speech explaining why Russia invaded that I'm absolutely not shocked that you haven't read or listened to.
That's an article from 2014. You might have missed a couple of administrations. Would you like to go back further? What did Eisenhower's top diplomat have to say about things?
And Putin also said it was the homeland of the Russian people, and I'm absolutely not shocked that you're not acknowledging that.
To assert the premise that Ukraine is a US puppet I linked you a news article about US diplomats hand picking their leader and you say it's disqualified because it's an article from when it happened.
You're just a profoundly unserious person.
I'm saying it's an article about a U.S. administration that hasn't been in power in a decade. You do understand that there's a whole new government every few years, yes?
Also, you have yet to acknowledge what Putin said, so your insult (which is against our community rules and I advise you not to do it again) about me not being serious is a bit odd.
So you just go around acting like a condescending asshole while you say the dumbest shit possible, then threaten people when you get pushback, huh?
The shithole community you've cultivated is downstream of your own personal failings.
Then I guess you don't need to stay here any longer. I'll show you the door.
Most enlightened tankie. I guess Ukrainians should use rocks, or jedi powers to defend against the orcs?
Or the NATO could give them weapons and pass the bill to the Russians.
lil bro on the internet discovers that in a globalist capitalist world, that even military conflicts are burdened by the concepts of capital itself.
Then they shouldn't sell it as "help". If you help, you help. If you sell, you sell.
Edit: and I know the World is mostly a shitty place but that doesn't make me less angry.
yeah and we aren't selling them weapons, we're giving them money to buy weapons. Instead of just, giving them weapons they probably don't want/need.
We are donating a lot of weapons globally, but universally money is still required, and money can buy weapons so...
"A little more debt for Poland and France" - bufalo1973 in 1944
most of which is default-able. The rest is probably going to be paid back inevitably, due to ukraine receiving a massive industry boom post war for shit like drones and stuff.
Not to mention the rebuilding of the economy.
The post-war part is another different thing. But telling someone that's on fire "pay me for putting the flames down" is inhuman.
we're not telling them, i think ukraine is even asking for them at some points. Ukraine agrees to the loans, and like i said, i think some amount of the money is default-able loans. So it's not actually "debt sharking" here.
If it's an ally and NATO is defending human rights and democracy (I know, I know) it should be "free" for Ukraine.
If ukraine is an ally, i understand that to be fairly recent, prior to zelenskyy the president of Ukraine was a russian plant. I believe he was voted in about 2014 or so.
NATO is primarily an alliance between members of the alliance, of which ukraine is not a member. Protecting members outside of NATO is not really inside the purview of NATO as an organization, although protecting border states is politically advantageous.
anyway, i tried looking for some data and didn't have much luck, but even thinking about it from a strategic position it wouldn't make sense to loan shark ukraine here. Worst case scenario they collapse after winning due to the loans, and then russia takes over, or they collapse during the war, and we have to deal with getting that money back, because it's marked as a loan, which wouldn't really make any sense.
I think the idea is relatively simple, it provides a way for ukraine to borrow money, assuming they win it provides them a way to pay it back or default on it, and that allows ukraine to stay relatively neutral. Just giving free money to ukraine is probably less than ideal.
From the research i did do, i couldn't find anything talking about how it would be problematic, it was mostly talking about numbers which makes sense, so i guess that checks out, but i would've been surprised if nobody had reported on that either.
It should be interesting to see who pays for this when Russia wins.
Russia can't win. I don't mean I don't want it to happen, despite that being true. I mean there is no winning condition for Russia or Putin to end this conflict. Even if they were to occupy Kiev, they should really remember what happened when they attempted to occupy Afghanistan, because the exact same thing will happen. We didn't even have to supply bombs and missiles, just some shoulder mounted surface to air shit, and the Russian occupation was completely halted. The Ukrainians aren't going to give up, even if Russia declared victory.
What's worse is that I'm not certain if we have passed the point where Russia literally cannot make enough people for this war to not cripple their economy and political power for the next century or so, but they've lost so many young men that if we haven't passed that point yet, we will by the end of the year.
probably russia