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Everything is so expensive
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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I suggest voting with your feet and living in cheaper countries with better infrastructure.
Why give broken US systems more money if you weren't getting anything in return?
It's not like you can just up and move when you don't have money. There's also the little issue of not being a citizen wherever you go, and then add in the culture shock, and family being far away. It's no wonder people stay.
"It's not like you can just up and move"
yes, you can.
you need a few hundred bucks and a job that makes you $500 a month(there are many), or if you're fine with teaching fundamental English a few hours a week, you don't need any savings.
with that much, you can live at the level you're living in the US right now or far above it, and then build off of there pursuing what you're interested in because you don't have any financial stressors.
"There's also the little issue of not being a citizen wherever you go"
this is far more of a benefit than a liability.
do you mean a positive issue? I can't really think of any liabilities of being a non-citizen.
"culture shock"
"culture shock" is an absurd debilitating elitist promise and symptom of jingoism.
it is a flimsy term with laughable connotations.
"you all ride bikes? but I'm used to a car, im so confuuused!?"
this is like saying people should never exercise because they might hurt themselves.
or that people should never eat food because they might choke.
Americans get "culture shock" because they are taught to be afraid of non-american cultures.
"oh no. chopsticks. however, will I overcome this barrier? "
"It's no wonder people stay."
it is truly a wonder how much Americans complain about their shitty, expensive livelihoods ( rightly so), and how much they're getting screwed over by the education, employment, healthcare systems in the US and can't afford to live, but absolutely refuse to engage with the simplest alternative.
in the same breath condemning their government and the systems that abuse them, they haughtily defend that abuse.
" what am I going to do, leave my abuser?"
Yes, that would be a savvy alternative to being abused.
You know what? Instead of just down voting you, imma explain. You highlighted exactly why people do not understand abuse.
Sure, leaving your abuser is the obvious answer. But the ability to leave your abuser is much more complex. If you were being savagely beat, but if you left your child starts to get beat, and they have restricted access to your child, how do you leave then?
Do you think victims want to keep being abused? No. Many times they can't find an escape because so many things are controlled by there abuser. Money, communication, social lives, health. People dont leave countries for the exact same reasons. A lot of us know one language, and do not have enough time to learn another. What about those of us who have to take medication daily? How am I supposed to get that medication across the border and find a doctor to prescribe it. Hell, how do I even know if the medicine I take is available in that country? Research it? Can't. Don't have the time.
Critical thinking requires you to test aspects supporting and dissenting from your original understanding. Instead of "why x reasons won't prevent you" in this scenario, find a single reason that could.
I can guarantee you that there is a long complex list of reasons why people are unable to leave the abuser just like they are unable to leave a country.
"Sure, leaving your abuser is the obvious answer. But the ability to leave your abuser is much more complex."
I didn't say it was the obvious answer, you did.
I said it was the savvy alternative.
I also didn't say it was easy.
but I understand why you got confused, lots of people make the same assumptions you have.
as for your travel questions:
"What about those of us who have to take medication daily?"
you go to a hospital or pharmacy and get the medication.
If you are lucky enough to speak English, you'll have no trouble with this.
"How am I supposed to get that medication across the border and find a doctor to prescribe it?"
I would get the medication locally, but if you want or need to take it with you:
to get the medication across a border, fill out a small index card stating the medication and its purpose.
If you want the doctor to prescribe it, if that is necessary, you go to a hospital or a pharmacy.
"how do I even know if the medicine I take is available in that country?"
If it is available in your country, it is available in other countries.
"Don't have the time."
then you don't have this non-problem you are hoping is an issue.
people who need medication have the time to get the proper medication, which is usually much cheaper and easier to do in other countries because most countries have working health care systems.
"Critical thinking requires you to test aspects supporting and dissenting from your original understanding."
your misunderstanding of alternative = risk is a very common fear-based symptom of hermetic monocultures.
mint ice cream is an alternative to strawberry ice cream.
that does not make mint ice cream significantly more risky or dangerous than strawberry ice cream, it is simply an alternative that functions the same way.
So now we're starting down the road of throwing out logical fallacies to support your argument? Why don't you just go do something else. Arguing with people here with long winded responses isn't going to sway anybody anyway.
"So now we're starting down the road of throwing out logical fallacies"
I don't mind If you're going to try fallacies next, but they probably aren't going to fare much better than your previous illogical reasoning, which didn't exactly pan out for you.
"Why don't you just go do something else."
I'm washing clothes right now.
you're my down time.
"Arguing with people here with long winded responses isn't going to sway anybody anyway."
I've had the opposite experience.
although it is funny that you ostensibly think that while simultaneously keeping the conversation going.
You can just walk into any hospital and a doctor will have time to see you and prescribe a medication for you? Or you can just walk into any pharmacy and get a medication without a prescription? Forgive me if I'm skeptical. What country are you describing?
While this is generally true, it is not universally true for all medications. Where a specific medication is not available there generally will be similar/suitable alternatives (at least, in a country with a developed healthcare system), but a lay person won't know what those are and will require professional guidance, meaning finding a doctor and waiting for an appointment. During which time you may well run out of your medication.
This take suggests a lack of perspective on chronic/debilitating illnesses as well as poverty. I hope you never have to experience either. I don't know about wherever you're from, but in the US it is not uncommon for people to have to work 2-3 jobs just to survive and taking time off for going to a doctor and pharmacy could mean the difference on making enough to pay rent this month. Even if taking time off is a real option, for people struggling to secure basic survival needs (i.e. food/shelter), it leaves little cognitive space for more abstract/complex concerns. It may be conceptually simple to obtain healthcare, but in practice it can be anything but simple even if the healthcare system itself isn't broken. I am fortunate enough to make a living with only one job but I work the same hours that most doctors' offices are open, which means taking time off work every time I or my offspring require care, which can quickly eat through paid leave time and isn't exactly conducive to success in America's abusive work culture.
Healthcare in whereever you are from may well be more functional than in the US, but I really can't fathom that it's as trivial as you imply for someone who requires medications or other ongoing treatment to simply arrive and get the care they need without potentially problematic delay.
"You can just walk into any hospital and a doctor will have time to see you and prescribe a medication for you?"
yes.
"you can just walk into any pharmacy and get a medication without a prescription?"
depends on the medication.
but mostly, yes.
I can't think of a legitimate health scenario where the answer is no.
"Forgive me if I'm skeptical."
forgiven.
I've heard these questions a hundred times.
If you're haven't traveled, you equate everything to the US, although things like the healthcare system abroad are meant to serve people rather than corporations so they function a lot differently than you're used to.
"What country are you describing?"
most of Western Europe and most of Asia (I can only speak to the countries I've been to), and I know someone who lives exclusively in the Balkans who says all the countries there are the same as well.
"While this is generally true, it is not universally true for all medications."
it's universally true as far as I'm aware and have experienced.
you might not have the same brand, but it'll be the same medication except readily available and cheaper.
"a lay person won't know what those are and will require professional guidance"
yea, I assume it's the same in your country? where some medications should be prescribed or recommended by a doctor?
"finding a doctor and waiting for an appointment."
Google and maybe sitting down and playing on your phone for a half hour is a lot easier than you're making it out to be.
"During which time you may well run out of your medication."
how?
I can't imagine this scenario happening.
Unless you're talking about something you have to take hourly and you brought one pill with you so you'll be without medication for 30 minutes?
these are such unlikely possibilities.
I've known known an uncountable number of travelers for the past decade, many of whom take medication, zero of which have ever complained of not being able to find their particular medication.
not once.
I hear "geez did you know X is only like three bucks here? It's like $80 a bottle in the states!"
"This take suggests a lack of perspective on chronic/debilitating illnesses as well as poverty."
couldn't be less correct.
your doubt on what I'm saying simply demonstrates your ignorance.
I'm not using "ignorance" as a pejorative term, I mean that you literally don't know what you are talking about.
chronic debilitating illnesses and poverty are characterized by financial trouble.
traveling takes away financial stressors.
I have known many retirees and chronically ill people who have regaled me with tales of how easy it is to retire in Vietnam/Germany/Portugal/Laos and so on because they don't have to worry about the cost of medication.
financial anxiety isn't completely determining their life.
"it leaves little cognitive space for more abstract/complex concerns."
Yes, this was my original point.
If you don't have any savings, if you're a month away from living on the street, if you have healthcare needs, and these financial stressors are determining your life, traveling can fix that almost instantly.
then you can save up money, make a plan and go back to whatever you want to do.
but at the very least you'll have breathing room, and what's most likely is you'll discover that traveling is way better than struggling in the US and you'll keep traveling.
"....isn't exactly conducive to success in America's abusive work culture."
yep, America's work culture sucks.
most other countries have siestas and employee rights.
and are focused on draining you financially. every second you're awake
Plus, if you're outside of the US for more than 330 days out of the year, you fill out the FEIE, an IRS tax form, and you don't pay income tax up to $120,000 per year.
"I really can't fathom that it's as trivial as you imply for someone who requires medications or other ongoing treatment to simply arrive and get the care they need without potentially problematic delay."
That's because you haven't done it yet(and I never said it was trivial).
It's difficult to fathom something you've never experienced.
especially when you're living in the worst existing iteration of functional health care infrastructure.
you've grown up with excruciating waits and debilitating, financially disastrous healthcare your whole life, and you are surrounded by people who think the same thing and think it's normal, so thinking about health care at all puts you in the mindset of excruciating waits, debilitating, financially disastrous, healthcare.
That's mostly a US specialty.
ask anyone who has traveled for any length of time and they will tell you exactly what I'm telling you.
I'm very happy to answer these questions and will answer any other questions you have.
How would someone with zero savings move to another country? Most have every barriers of highly skilled, unfilled professions. Like who move from extremely underprivileged nations to extremely wealthy nations often end up surrendering passport and other critical documents to their employers and end up severely mentally and physically abused, sexually abused, trafficked. How would an older person even pay for required documents, let alone a living space, food, utilities, especially being monolingual?
"How would someone with zero savings move to another country?"
there are many, many ways, I suggest teaching English because it's the easiest thing.
If you have a phone, you can start teaching English online.
you need $100 to leave the country, about $250 to $300 to make it to Asia, where most of the highest paying English teaching jobs are.
so let's say you only have 30 minutes free time a night and you're making the lowest amount of money teaching on an app, about $12 an hour, and you want to go teach in korea.
you'll need to work about 25 hours to get $300, so 50 days of 30 minutes per day,
or a little over 2 weeks of 90 minutes a day teaching.
you will then have the savings to get to korea and start teaching, or you'll be making over 2,000 USD with zero experience starting and your costs will plummet to less than $1000 USD a month.
so within 2 months envisioning the bare minimum of free time in the US, you can be in Asia saving $1,000 per month.
so within a couple of months, you have $1,000 more savings than you have, and every month you have $1,000 or more savings.
you can obviously tweak this, but those numbers are accurate.
"Most have every barriers of highly skilled, unfilled professions."
this is inorrect.
most countries have barriers of unskilled in persons.
The more skilled you are, the easier it is to get a work permit in most countries.
are you into material sciences? are you a power plant engineer?
then you can get a work visa everywhere if you want to.
countries specifically have high-skill visas for high skilled people because every country wants high skilled people to move to their country.
you don't need any skills, to move, but if you are one of the rare high skilled people and want to move permanently and work locally, professional skills help.
"How would an older person even pay for required documents, let alone a living space, food, utilities, especially being monolingual?"
can you clarify this question?
are you asking about specifically old people traveling?
there are no age restrictions on travel, so they would travel the same as I've recommended for any other English speaker.
All of those have been answered in detail in previous comments, food and documents and all that.
Of course! My apologies, I just meant with the physical challenges, bursitis, arthritis, failing eyesight, etc.
Thanks so much for your answers. I appreciate them.
i see. All the old people traveling, or ill people for that matter, get their medications at pharmacies or hospitals.
a living space is usually found online through any one of dozens of apps, you can rent a house or an apartment or a condo or even a hostel, whatever you like, for $100(hostel)to $400(personal house), utilities included, per month.
a lot of the personal houses or monthly hotels have maid service.
there are so many ways to get housing through your phone or laptop, that housing is a non-issue these days.
The longer you stay in one place, the cheaper the housing is too.
I hung out with this cool group of old expats who have been living abroad in Cambodia for 15 to 40 years, and they were living on social security like kings renting houses in the neighborhood for less than a hundred bucks, eating sushi and drinking beer at their local hangout and swapping stories every night about the good old days.
especially after you're living somewhere, it's super easy to find local unlisted cheaper housing.
Just because I love sharing the story, there was a beach house community built in China, and since it's 1 hour drive out of the city and they hate not living in cities, that beach house was leasing for $200 a year.
there was a condo in a mountain community I visited outside of chongqing that was $120 a year.
That's all utilities and water included.
housing is absurdly cheap in a lot of places, especially if you're not in the middle of the city, and still reasonably cheap if you are nearer to or within the city.
I was in Thailand earlier this year and there were 30 different private houses within a 10-minute walk to the beach for less than $300 a month, private rooms for half that.
monolingual is a problem if you speak hindi or Mandarin, or something that isn't English.
a billion and a half people speak Hindi or Mandarin each, but within one country and very sparingly in the rest of the world.
If you're monolingual and you speak English?
you're lucky and you'll be able to communicate wherever you go.
there are great apps for learning languages, Duolingo has gone down the shitter but drops is a really interesting new app with a simple fun language teaching style.
and after you go to a restaurant in a new country, you pick up a few words if you are trying at all.
I like studying languages, especially food, so I usually start there, but I also know people that have lived in the same country for 10 years who don't learn any other language but get along fine because 1. most people can speak some level of English, 2. most places have English or romanized translations of their product 3. they can go to a supermarket or point at food and 4. they ask other expats for help with whatever they want that their language skills don't allow them. there's always a local expat community willing to help, because everyone has free time.
fundamentals are fundamental everywhere.
any of those basic necessities are accessible through an English language app, or like the medicine, available in any pharmacy or local shop, and most frivolous luxuries are also accessible through an English language app or international supermarket, so getting any fundamentals while traveling abroad is a non-issue as far as I've ever encountered or heard about, regardless of age.
Thanks. I'm not partial or full retirement age yet and I don't take any medications beyond aspirin or paracetamol. I'm supposed to, but I don't have funds for that or insurance either, right now. A lot of the meds I'm okay without anyway, afaict. But this is information I'll definitely look into. I'm okay being outside the city as long as I can get there or get what I need. I assume public transportation might be available, outside city or suburbs?
Have you ever been to Laos, Cuba or Vietnam? Can you please tell me a bit about any of those you've visited? Thanks.
yeah, public transportation is available everywhere, but most people have a electric scooter or motor scooter to get around everywhere anyway.
I've been around most of Southeast Asia. and whatever medication you can't afford in the states, you can afford the generic brand with identical active ingredients in Southeast Asia (and Europe).
Laos, I lived in for 3 months, and absolutely loved it. i lived in Luang Prabang, field capital that a lot of people moved out of so it's a little bit slower but still has a night market and tons of great restaurants and shops and everyone is super laid back.
really great food, which all costs $2 or less, The Mekong river ensconces the entire city, you can take riverboats if you want to just for fun or if you want to visit other towns.
there are like a bunch of different waterfalls all around the city that you can take a bike to or hike to or whatever.
that city is actually so small. I think they only have a couple buses, but with a bicycle you can drive across the city in 20 minutes anyway.
love laos, was considering settling down there, which happens with most countries i visit, hahaha.
nothing is more expensive than the US, and food is great. everywhere, and people are almost always great, Plus you have all the better social infrastructure and healthcare and everything so every time I'm in a new place, I'm like, yeah, this is a life!
cambodia is even smaller, they have cool dragon boat races, there's this town I love called kampot where this Japanese guy moved and he just has a large porch that he puts a couple tables and chairs on and he makes sushi and homebrews beer, so that's the cool spot to hang out at.
Vietnam! The food in Vietnam didn't wow. me as much as the others, but pho is pho, and I basically just ate pho for 3 months, and never got sick of it cuz it's the best.
when I went to Vietnam I bought a bicycle in the town. I landed in and then just rode out of the city, and I just chose North on a whim, and then discovered a week into my trip and 50 Mi North that the entire North part of Vietnam is all mountains and the entire South part is all flat, so I didn't see a single other foreigner for the 3 months that I was there. but those might be the most friendly and gracious people I have ever met.
like one guy ran out of his house to flag me down just to convince me to have breakfast with him, and we walked through his personal grove of dragon fruit, banana and mango trees that he just picked fruit from and we ate and then he cooked for me and played music and I was like. thank you so much but I have to go catch this train and he was like "go. thank you so much for spending the morning with me and visiting Vietnam"
this other guy sitting on his porch sipping tea waved me down, and then we communicated through Google translate, and then I ate dinner with him and his parents and they made the best amazing food I had the whole time I was in Vietnam.
it just kept happening over and over again, that's some random Vietnamese person would flag me down and do something incredibly kind and gracious.
and it's beautiful! like so much of all of Southeast Asia, so much of those countries are completely undeveloped, so you just have wild jungles all around you and it's stunning. and waterfalls everywhere.
I lived in a small town in Thailand and I just spent 2 weeks learning all of the constellations because the sky was like crystal clear and there was no light pollution where I was, a private house for I think $7 a day? with the best Thai restaurant I found in the whole country right next to my cabin.
yeah, it's difficult to go wrong with any place Southeast Asia, especially if finances are a concern.
sorry I speech to texted all of this, so there might be some bullshit mistakes all over the place.
you do not have to be retirement age to retire, btw, I started traveling in my 20s and I was like why would I stop doing this?
"do you want to come back, make car payments and have a mortgage? We shoot children a couple times a day! Don't get caught in the crossfire, you can't afford it! make sure to pay taxes, but you can't tell us what we're going to do with them!"
sorry for the run on,, I really do love talking about it hahah, and since I'm basically retired(work on what I want when I want) I have plenty of time to do it.
You make it sound so amazing! I could read your stories all day due days if I had no other obligations! If you ever visit southeastern US, and I'm not out of it yet, give me a shout - we'll do food and beer.
I didn't notice mistakes, and I agree with your USA assessment. May all your travels continue to bring you joy. Cheers!
thanks, it has been amazing so far.
and without financial stressors or many societal stressors really, I'm able to be in the moment a lot more and enjoy what's around me, do what I like to do(what a coincidence, food and beer are kind of high on my list).
that sounds fun; if I get back to area of the States, I will let you know.
have a good one, and if you have questions about any of this stuff on any level, hit me up.
I obviously have a lot of free time to respond, hahaha.
Very welcome! If I travel, I've bookmarked this thread so maybe we'll cross paths in more pleasant places.
I’m going to just roll into Canada and see if they kick me out? You can’t just show up in a country and roll the dice. American is not a desired nationality in developed countries.
Yes, you can just show up in a country.
I'm not sure what dice you're referring to, what sort of risk are you afraid of?
it's very easy to travel to other countries.
That's pretty fuckin dependent yo.
US to Mexico? Yeah Portugal to Spain? You bet. HK or Taiwan to PRC? HELL YES.
Mexico to US? Depends. US to Canada? Depends. UK to France? Depends.
NK to SK? Lol no Cuba to US? Lol no
Inside the Eurozone you're right, but it's not really an effective blanket statement.
dependent on having a passport and the price of a ticket.
If you have leapt those hurdles, you can travel to any of 186 countries with the click of a button and anywhere from ten to a few hundred dollars.
Canada was $22 yesterday from Washington.
I got a ticket from New York to London for $23 and a ticket from Ireland to Morocco for $12.
New York to Hong Kong? $213 this spring.
I'm comfortable checking ticket prices regularly, but even if don't plan at all, you can add 50 to 100 bucks to any of those prices and find a ticket right away.
you already mentioned you don't want to visit North Korea and Cuba.
That's okay, traveling to one country doesn't mean you have to travel to literally every country.
Just choose the places you want to go to.
I suggest avoiding North Korean and any countries currently operated by actively genocidal warlords.
leaves you with almost 200 other breathtakingly beautiful, culturally unique countries to travel to.
proof in the pudding:
tickets for tomorrow:
That's the traveling bit sorted, but you suggested living there, and there are many more problems to overcome to achieve that.
As a previous commenter said, within the EU it's doable, but you're going to run into visa related issues trying to immigrate to most other countries. Some, perhaps most, of those can be overcome by throwing money at the problem, but others are more permanent. Even once you have a visa there are often limits on what you can do and where you can work until you get the equivalent of a green card, which can take years.
Then there are the logistics of living in your adopted country. I've known enough immigrants to know it's possible, but also how much effort it takes, especially if you're moving as a family. There may be a new language to learn, there will certainly be a new culture, and whilst you can probably get by for a while, long term you need to learn it and integrate into it, or permanently be the outsider.
Then you have the upheaval of your life. Leaving your family and friends behind, and walking away from all the little things you know that make living where you do easier. These you face moving even a comparatively short distance, but they're magnified going overseas.
Of course it's possible, but it's nowhere near as simple as you suggest.
"Of course it's possible, but it's nowhere near as simple as you suggest."
it is exactly as simple as I suggest.
you buy a ticket, tell your things, go to the new country.
start saving money, figure out what you want to do.
or don't, and just hang out. retire at 30.
"...living there, there are many more problems to overcome to achieve that."
not that I've encountered or heard about from any traveler, It's more of the same.
"within the EU it's doable"
or any other part of the world.
'but you're going to run into visa related issues trying to immigrate to most other countries."
whoever is telling you this is incorrect from any practical or logistical perspective and obviously have no idea what they're talking about.
moving permanently is easy enough procedurally, but there isn't a ton of benefit in going through that whole process for no reason, whereas living in a place for 6 months or a year and then living in a place for another 6 months or a year gives you all of the upsides and none of the downsides.
especially within the context of saving money and controlling your own life, what's the point of going through the hassle of applying for citizenship or changing nationality when a Visa-free stay or tourist visa takes 10 minutes?
living permanently on tourist or digital Nomad visas is way less trouble than going the citizenship route, while retaining all of the benefits.
"Some, perhaps most, of those can be overcome by throwing money at the problem"
you don't have to guess, you can just ask the question.
If you have money, it doesn't really matter because visas are way cheaper overall than the cost of living in the US. $40 for 6 months is very common.
The only time money would help is if you're trying to buy citizenship specifically, in which case there are a few less financially stable Islands that will accept $60,000 or something to become a citizen.
again, there's no real reason to do this unless you want to second citizenship, but you seem very focused on these esoteric non-issues, so there's a way that you could necessarily spend a bunch of money money if you want to.
The Schengen areas are completely free for 3 months, and you can apply for longer visas if you like.
and visas take 10 to 15 minutes to apply to.
online.
traveling is much simpler than people think.
"Even once you have a visa there are often limits on what you can do and where you can work until you get the equivalent of a green card, which can take years."
If you work online, most countries do not have a restriction on you working in their country.
If you want to become certified in that country at some offline profession, then yes you're going to have to take certification courses like in every other country and profession.
but you're coming up with this very unlikely problem, like your health concerns that are completely immaterial to practical life.
why apply for a work visa if you don't have to?
Why commit yourself to a office job when you don't have to?
Why struggle for more money when you don't need more money?
If you are a native English speaker, you can start with zero experience TEFL certificate, repeating primary colors to school children for $20 an hour.
you can work as little or as much as you want online or in the classroom, and done.
work for a couple of months, save a couple grand, reevaluate.
English teaching is by far the easiest route to start making money immediately with zero experience, but online work is everywhere in every field and depending on what country you're in, a few hundred bucks a month is going to cover you.
steve not being able to be hired as a paper company manager in Stuttgart just isn't a realistic concern.
he doesn't have that financial burden or the negative cultural reinforcement where he is forced to believe he wants to be a paper company manager anymore.
"Then there are the logistics of living in your adopted country."
absolutely! immaterial.
Google house/apartment any City, get a house or an apartment.
every country has transportation, healthcare, supermarkets.
The "logistics" is a false scare, like "culture shock", where Americans pretend that they don't understand what a bicycle is.
"your muffins are usually savory? I'm used to sweet muffins!?! brain aneurysm!"
"upheaval"
sell your things. buy a ticket.
Slough off all of your financial concerns.
call your parents with free Wi-Fi calling or your family everyday.
or take your family with you, I know families that travel permanently.
it's so much cheaper and they get to live in all the paradise places everybody wants to go to.
traveling is exactly as simple as I'm making it out to be.
I've been doing it with zero problems for years, I know people who have been doing it for decades, I know people from every walk of life who have done it, with every disability or privilege you can imagine.
it boils down to buying a ticket and going where you want to go.
The first time can be scary, but there's nothing real stopping you from taking control of your life.
as soon as a traveler moves for the first time and you land in the new country, or you go into a store in Portugal and realize that yes they also have juice and toilet paper, you realize that all your concerns were ridiculous.
everything you do in the US, you can do in the countries you live in, for far less money with better social services.
So, question: You're someone with a not-remote-friendly skill set. You save your money to travel - travel, mind you, not immigrate, so subject to the visa requirements of travellers/tourists (as this seems to be what you're talking about - immigration is a whole different kettle of fish). The money runs out. What do?
Or - you're living paycheck to paycheck with children. You try to save money to travel for the reasons you've brought up here. It's not possible. What do?
No offence, but your account of travel as a solution here seems deeply naive. It can work for some, sure, but "just leave the country bro" simply isn't an option at all for many, many people.
"The money runs out. What do?"
you do not need a remote friendly skill set to find an online job that will pay you a few hundred dollars per month.
so you get an online job.
if for whatever reason you only want to work in person, you can go berry picking in a lot of countries or harvesting on farms, you can teach English in person in 40 different countries immediately, au pairs, housesitters, a lot of countries hire seasonal workers.
so if you need a job, you can find one.
and if you plan ahead at all (oh no! I only have four more weeks of money), your overhead is so cheap that whatever job you get will cover you, you'll be able to catch up and hopefully learn to plan ahead a little bit.
example: this month you somehow forgot you needed money. but you remembered in the last month before you ran out and you taught English for 10 hours and you got rent for the next month.
now you're one month ahead, so you teach English for 10 more hours, and now? you're 2 months ahead, and you have one whole month minus 10 hours to figure out what you're going to do next.
or what you want to do next.
most travelers don't have this problem, I've never met one that ran out of money without some sort of plan in place.
you have so much time when you don't have any financial stressors, and there are jobs in every country, and a billion jobs that you don't need skills for online, plus countless online certifications if you want a professional online job.
there's no reason why you would end up in a situation where you surprisingly ran out of money.
"you're living paycheck to paycheck with children. You try to save money to travel for the reasons you've brought up here. It's not possible. What do?"
do you have a phone? easiest way is to teach English online for 10 hours a month If that's all you have.
you have enough money to move your family after a few months.
"No offence, but your account of travel as a solution here seems deeply naive"
That's because you don't know anything about traveling, so you are imagining that these simple solutions won't work because you don't know how to solve these problems.
I do.
"naive"
I don't think you know what this word means.
i know exactly how to travel immediately and indefinitely, I've brought other people along and taught them how to travel, I have simple practical solutions to any question off the cuff because I know and have lived this stuff back and forth.
I have as much practical experience with travel and insight into traveling as anybody you're going to find.
you're assuming that because you don't know how to travel, other people cannot know how to travel.
but we do.
"It can work for some, sure, but "just leave the country bro" simply isn't an option at all for many, many people."
travel can work for anybody, leaving the country is an option for anyone with a valid passport and 100 bucks.
and especially if you need financial relief, It's a heck of a lot easier and more liberating than borrowing money from friends or family or living in your car or on the streets, or moving back in with your parents.
people are afraid of traveling, especially Americans, because they live in a monoculture, they're told that the world outside is scary and other cultures are scary, but other cultures are beautiful and compassionate.
other countries function better than the US does in most respects, and practically all livability.
if you travel, you will learn that.
Naive in the sense that it doesn't adequately account for the situation of many people. Not everyone has the circumstances where they can do this. I can't help but feel there's some survivorship bias influencing your position.
I'm curious, though, if you're up to illustrating (if not, totally fine): You are a single mother of two sons, ages 7 and 8, living in Generic State, USA. You have a high school degree and no post-secondary education. You have limited support, solely in the form of limited childcare, from family/the wider community. You make about $1600.00 USD per month, after taxes, working 50 hours a week at a physical workplace. You're finding yourself with $10 left at the end of each month, after all legitimately necessary expenses (rent, food, basic utilities) are paid for. Let's make it easy and say you have no debt.
What are you doing, and where are you going, if following your advice? It should be noted these circumstances are actually quite a bit better than other folks in the U.S. To be clear, I don't think this is a gotcha, nor is it intended to be - I just want to see your approach here.
Edit: Monthly wage should be after taxes, not before, and changed $900 to $1600 (based roughly on monthly takehome pay at Ohio's minimum wage rate, and I calculated for 1 pay period rather than 2 per month)
"Naive in the sense that it doesn't adequately account for the situation of many people."
this is not my naivety but projection your own: another example of you not believing in something you have no experience in.
as I've made note of: families can travel, disabled people can travel, minorities of all walks of life can travel, what are these circumstances you're imagining?
some other theoretical esoteric scenario?
"..if following your advice"
Don't worry, this is definitely not a gotcha, I have hired this person before.
TLDR: get tefl certificate, get job, buy plane tickets, sell stuff.
details below.
if we imagine that your troubled lady can only save 0.6% of her income, with zero savings, possessions, skills, experience, or motivation to leave the status quo but is forced to out of necessity, it could take them up to half a year to become financially independent the easiest and stablest way that I know the ins and outs of.
in real life, the destitute people I know got the certificate, sold everything and started teaching online or abroad in under a month, the abroad ones paid off $2,000 of their debt a month in the states within a few months while living very comfortably,, and kept traveling and saving money.
but for the make-believe person:
right now, a full internationally accredited TEFL certificate for life is $30.
40 hour course, works out to about 8 hours of tests.
I've never seen anyone take longer than 12 hours with this course, but if we pretend they took the full amount of time with the limitation of $10 extra a month and 15 minutes of free time a day, she can either charge the course to a credit card and pay off the course and finish the course at the same time, or save up for 3 months until she has $30, then take the course and add on another 2 months.
I knew someone with zero savings, kids, and "literally no free time", and they got the certification (which was 40 at the time, not 30 like it is now) and completed this course in a week and a half.
once you have that certificate, Google TEFL teaching apps and TEFL teaching platforms, there are dozens of places you can teach online with only a phone or a laptop if you have one, with the TEFL certificate she's making $20 an hour pretty easily, If she's terrible at technology and teaching and everything, that she's making $12 an hour.
to get to the highest paying jobs in Asia, we'll assume she'll need the most expensive ticket, $300 per person.
at the lowest pay, she'll need to work about 75 hours to make that amount of money to relocate her family, subtracting the costs of what she's going to sell before she leaves and any assets she has, the sale of which which are probably enough to cover the entire cost.
so she works 1 hour a day, 2 months later she has enough to leave.
half an hour a day, 4 months later she has enough to leave the states with her kids.
The lady with two kids I mentioned was in Thailand maybe 3 weeks later, their international schools are great for expats.
another single mom I know just stayed in the states and kept teaching online, because at $20 an hour you're making you're making closer to $4,000 a month if you work 50 hours a week.
she makes closer to $30 an hour now, It's been a few years.
Can I do this from the USA, because every listing I see requires degrees or certifications. Can you toss a few websites my way, please?
yes.
College degrees are nice but not necessary, I would suggest getting TEFL certificate, teaching English as a Foreign Language.
It's an online PDF course, that lasts the rest of your life it is greatly influential and how much you get paid for teaching English.
you have to make sure the tefl course is internationally accredited.
Full circle is internationally accredited and is almost perpetually on sale on groupon.
right now it's $30 for the course on Groupon.
https://www.groupon.com/deals/n-tefl-fullcircle?srsltid=AfmBOoqFYZwQR0qx9rYRLhscJVtcMwVRegIqmTAVW8IbDOyJdzSn_20T
it took me 4 days of a few hours a day reading at PDF and taking the tests on the full circle website.
It's the program I recommend to anyone interested in teaching English.
it might take a few weeks if you have less free time
as for teaching english, there are so many websites, Just find whichever one looks the least burdensome that has high reviews from teachers.
If you have a laptop, these ones:
https://www.tefl.org/teach-english-online/
If you only have a phone, these ones:
https://www.goodairlanguage.com/online-english-teaching-app-list/
you'll get paid about the same, so trial and error and find out which one is the easiest platform for you to use and provides the greatest compensation.
I'd suggest one of the apps where you can talk to people on the phone conversationally so you get used to acting and sounding like a teacher before you jump into one-on-one tutoring or group teaching kids on the laptop, which might pay a little more but might be more work.
Go through the lists and see which ones sound good to you,, they all function a little bit differently but fundamentally the same so you might find one that suits you better.
Thank you, I'll look into that.
For sure!
I love talking about this stuff all the time, but especially while I'm traveling and see a meme like this that posits a lack of alternatives to the struggle of surviving in the United States specifically, I feel it necessary to just let people know that there are ready, low-barrier alternatives.
Doing the work, spreading the good news. Haha 😆