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Everything is so expensive
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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I’m going to just roll into Canada and see if they kick me out? You can’t just show up in a country and roll the dice. American is not a desired nationality in developed countries.
Yes, you can just show up in a country.
I'm not sure what dice you're referring to, what sort of risk are you afraid of?
it's very easy to travel to other countries.
That's pretty fuckin dependent yo.
US to Mexico? Yeah Portugal to Spain? You bet. HK or Taiwan to PRC? HELL YES.
Mexico to US? Depends. US to Canada? Depends. UK to France? Depends.
NK to SK? Lol no Cuba to US? Lol no
Inside the Eurozone you're right, but it's not really an effective blanket statement.
dependent on having a passport and the price of a ticket.
If you have leapt those hurdles, you can travel to any of 186 countries with the click of a button and anywhere from ten to a few hundred dollars.
Canada was $22 yesterday from Washington.
I got a ticket from New York to London for $23 and a ticket from Ireland to Morocco for $12.
New York to Hong Kong? $213 this spring.
I'm comfortable checking ticket prices regularly, but even if don't plan at all, you can add 50 to 100 bucks to any of those prices and find a ticket right away.
you already mentioned you don't want to visit North Korea and Cuba.
That's okay, traveling to one country doesn't mean you have to travel to literally every country.
Just choose the places you want to go to.
I suggest avoiding North Korean and any countries currently operated by actively genocidal warlords.
leaves you with almost 200 other breathtakingly beautiful, culturally unique countries to travel to.
proof in the pudding:
tickets for tomorrow:
That's the traveling bit sorted, but you suggested living there, and there are many more problems to overcome to achieve that.
As a previous commenter said, within the EU it's doable, but you're going to run into visa related issues trying to immigrate to most other countries. Some, perhaps most, of those can be overcome by throwing money at the problem, but others are more permanent. Even once you have a visa there are often limits on what you can do and where you can work until you get the equivalent of a green card, which can take years.
Then there are the logistics of living in your adopted country. I've known enough immigrants to know it's possible, but also how much effort it takes, especially if you're moving as a family. There may be a new language to learn, there will certainly be a new culture, and whilst you can probably get by for a while, long term you need to learn it and integrate into it, or permanently be the outsider.
Then you have the upheaval of your life. Leaving your family and friends behind, and walking away from all the little things you know that make living where you do easier. These you face moving even a comparatively short distance, but they're magnified going overseas.
Of course it's possible, but it's nowhere near as simple as you suggest.
"Of course it's possible, but it's nowhere near as simple as you suggest."
it is exactly as simple as I suggest.
you buy a ticket, tell your things, go to the new country.
start saving money, figure out what you want to do.
or don't, and just hang out. retire at 30.
"...living there, there are many more problems to overcome to achieve that."
not that I've encountered or heard about from any traveler, It's more of the same.
"within the EU it's doable"
or any other part of the world.
'but you're going to run into visa related issues trying to immigrate to most other countries."
whoever is telling you this is incorrect from any practical or logistical perspective and obviously have no idea what they're talking about.
moving permanently is easy enough procedurally, but there isn't a ton of benefit in going through that whole process for no reason, whereas living in a place for 6 months or a year and then living in a place for another 6 months or a year gives you all of the upsides and none of the downsides.
especially within the context of saving money and controlling your own life, what's the point of going through the hassle of applying for citizenship or changing nationality when a Visa-free stay or tourist visa takes 10 minutes?
living permanently on tourist or digital Nomad visas is way less trouble than going the citizenship route, while retaining all of the benefits.
"Some, perhaps most, of those can be overcome by throwing money at the problem"
you don't have to guess, you can just ask the question.
If you have money, it doesn't really matter because visas are way cheaper overall than the cost of living in the US. $40 for 6 months is very common.
The only time money would help is if you're trying to buy citizenship specifically, in which case there are a few less financially stable Islands that will accept $60,000 or something to become a citizen.
again, there's no real reason to do this unless you want to second citizenship, but you seem very focused on these esoteric non-issues, so there's a way that you could necessarily spend a bunch of money money if you want to.
The Schengen areas are completely free for 3 months, and you can apply for longer visas if you like.
and visas take 10 to 15 minutes to apply to.
online.
traveling is much simpler than people think.
"Even once you have a visa there are often limits on what you can do and where you can work until you get the equivalent of a green card, which can take years."
If you work online, most countries do not have a restriction on you working in their country.
If you want to become certified in that country at some offline profession, then yes you're going to have to take certification courses like in every other country and profession.
but you're coming up with this very unlikely problem, like your health concerns that are completely immaterial to practical life.
why apply for a work visa if you don't have to?
Why commit yourself to a office job when you don't have to?
Why struggle for more money when you don't need more money?
If you are a native English speaker, you can start with zero experience TEFL certificate, repeating primary colors to school children for $20 an hour.
you can work as little or as much as you want online or in the classroom, and done.
work for a couple of months, save a couple grand, reevaluate.
English teaching is by far the easiest route to start making money immediately with zero experience, but online work is everywhere in every field and depending on what country you're in, a few hundred bucks a month is going to cover you.
steve not being able to be hired as a paper company manager in Stuttgart just isn't a realistic concern.
he doesn't have that financial burden or the negative cultural reinforcement where he is forced to believe he wants to be a paper company manager anymore.
"Then there are the logistics of living in your adopted country."
absolutely! immaterial.
Google house/apartment any City, get a house or an apartment.
every country has transportation, healthcare, supermarkets.
The "logistics" is a false scare, like "culture shock", where Americans pretend that they don't understand what a bicycle is.
"your muffins are usually savory? I'm used to sweet muffins!?! brain aneurysm!"
"upheaval"
sell your things. buy a ticket.
Slough off all of your financial concerns.
call your parents with free Wi-Fi calling or your family everyday.
or take your family with you, I know families that travel permanently.
it's so much cheaper and they get to live in all the paradise places everybody wants to go to.
traveling is exactly as simple as I'm making it out to be.
I've been doing it with zero problems for years, I know people who have been doing it for decades, I know people from every walk of life who have done it, with every disability or privilege you can imagine.
it boils down to buying a ticket and going where you want to go.
The first time can be scary, but there's nothing real stopping you from taking control of your life.
as soon as a traveler moves for the first time and you land in the new country, or you go into a store in Portugal and realize that yes they also have juice and toilet paper, you realize that all your concerns were ridiculous.
everything you do in the US, you can do in the countries you live in, for far less money with better social services.
So, question: You're someone with a not-remote-friendly skill set. You save your money to travel - travel, mind you, not immigrate, so subject to the visa requirements of travellers/tourists (as this seems to be what you're talking about - immigration is a whole different kettle of fish). The money runs out. What do?
Or - you're living paycheck to paycheck with children. You try to save money to travel for the reasons you've brought up here. It's not possible. What do?
No offence, but your account of travel as a solution here seems deeply naive. It can work for some, sure, but "just leave the country bro" simply isn't an option at all for many, many people.
"The money runs out. What do?"
you do not need a remote friendly skill set to find an online job that will pay you a few hundred dollars per month.
so you get an online job.
if for whatever reason you only want to work in person, you can go berry picking in a lot of countries or harvesting on farms, you can teach English in person in 40 different countries immediately, au pairs, housesitters, a lot of countries hire seasonal workers.
so if you need a job, you can find one.
and if you plan ahead at all (oh no! I only have four more weeks of money), your overhead is so cheap that whatever job you get will cover you, you'll be able to catch up and hopefully learn to plan ahead a little bit.
example: this month you somehow forgot you needed money. but you remembered in the last month before you ran out and you taught English for 10 hours and you got rent for the next month.
now you're one month ahead, so you teach English for 10 more hours, and now? you're 2 months ahead, and you have one whole month minus 10 hours to figure out what you're going to do next.
or what you want to do next.
most travelers don't have this problem, I've never met one that ran out of money without some sort of plan in place.
you have so much time when you don't have any financial stressors, and there are jobs in every country, and a billion jobs that you don't need skills for online, plus countless online certifications if you want a professional online job.
there's no reason why you would end up in a situation where you surprisingly ran out of money.
"you're living paycheck to paycheck with children. You try to save money to travel for the reasons you've brought up here. It's not possible. What do?"
do you have a phone? easiest way is to teach English online for 10 hours a month If that's all you have.
you have enough money to move your family after a few months.
"No offence, but your account of travel as a solution here seems deeply naive"
That's because you don't know anything about traveling, so you are imagining that these simple solutions won't work because you don't know how to solve these problems.
I do.
"naive"
I don't think you know what this word means.
i know exactly how to travel immediately and indefinitely, I've brought other people along and taught them how to travel, I have simple practical solutions to any question off the cuff because I know and have lived this stuff back and forth.
I have as much practical experience with travel and insight into traveling as anybody you're going to find.
you're assuming that because you don't know how to travel, other people cannot know how to travel.
but we do.
"It can work for some, sure, but "just leave the country bro" simply isn't an option at all for many, many people."
travel can work for anybody, leaving the country is an option for anyone with a valid passport and 100 bucks.
and especially if you need financial relief, It's a heck of a lot easier and more liberating than borrowing money from friends or family or living in your car or on the streets, or moving back in with your parents.
people are afraid of traveling, especially Americans, because they live in a monoculture, they're told that the world outside is scary and other cultures are scary, but other cultures are beautiful and compassionate.
other countries function better than the US does in most respects, and practically all livability.
if you travel, you will learn that.
Naive in the sense that it doesn't adequately account for the situation of many people. Not everyone has the circumstances where they can do this. I can't help but feel there's some survivorship bias influencing your position.
I'm curious, though, if you're up to illustrating (if not, totally fine): You are a single mother of two sons, ages 7 and 8, living in Generic State, USA. You have a high school degree and no post-secondary education. You have limited support, solely in the form of limited childcare, from family/the wider community. You make about $1600.00 USD per month, after taxes, working 50 hours a week at a physical workplace. You're finding yourself with $10 left at the end of each month, after all legitimately necessary expenses (rent, food, basic utilities) are paid for. Let's make it easy and say you have no debt.
What are you doing, and where are you going, if following your advice? It should be noted these circumstances are actually quite a bit better than other folks in the U.S. To be clear, I don't think this is a gotcha, nor is it intended to be - I just want to see your approach here.
Edit: Monthly wage should be after taxes, not before, and changed $900 to $1600 (based roughly on monthly takehome pay at Ohio's minimum wage rate, and I calculated for 1 pay period rather than 2 per month)
"Naive in the sense that it doesn't adequately account for the situation of many people."
this is not my naivety but projection your own: another example of you not believing in something you have no experience in.
as I've made note of: families can travel, disabled people can travel, minorities of all walks of life can travel, what are these circumstances you're imagining?
some other theoretical esoteric scenario?
"..if following your advice"
Don't worry, this is definitely not a gotcha, I have hired this person before.
TLDR: get tefl certificate, get job, buy plane tickets, sell stuff.
details below.
if we imagine that your troubled lady can only save 0.6% of her income, with zero savings, possessions, skills, experience, or motivation to leave the status quo but is forced to out of necessity, it could take them up to half a year to become financially independent the easiest and stablest way that I know the ins and outs of.
in real life, the destitute people I know got the certificate, sold everything and started teaching online or abroad in under a month, the abroad ones paid off $2,000 of their debt a month in the states within a few months while living very comfortably,, and kept traveling and saving money.
but for the make-believe person:
right now, a full internationally accredited TEFL certificate for life is $30.
40 hour course, works out to about 8 hours of tests.
I've never seen anyone take longer than 12 hours with this course, but if we pretend they took the full amount of time with the limitation of $10 extra a month and 15 minutes of free time a day, she can either charge the course to a credit card and pay off the course and finish the course at the same time, or save up for 3 months until she has $30, then take the course and add on another 2 months.
I knew someone with zero savings, kids, and "literally no free time", and they got the certification (which was 40 at the time, not 30 like it is now) and completed this course in a week and a half.
once you have that certificate, Google TEFL teaching apps and TEFL teaching platforms, there are dozens of places you can teach online with only a phone or a laptop if you have one, with the TEFL certificate she's making $20 an hour pretty easily, If she's terrible at technology and teaching and everything, that she's making $12 an hour.
to get to the highest paying jobs in Asia, we'll assume she'll need the most expensive ticket, $300 per person.
at the lowest pay, she'll need to work about 75 hours to make that amount of money to relocate her family, subtracting the costs of what she's going to sell before she leaves and any assets she has, the sale of which which are probably enough to cover the entire cost.
so she works 1 hour a day, 2 months later she has enough to leave.
half an hour a day, 4 months later she has enough to leave the states with her kids.
The lady with two kids I mentioned was in Thailand maybe 3 weeks later, their international schools are great for expats.
another single mom I know just stayed in the states and kept teaching online, because at $20 an hour you're making you're making closer to $4,000 a month if you work 50 hours a week.
she makes closer to $30 an hour now, It's been a few years.
Can I do this from the USA, because every listing I see requires degrees or certifications. Can you toss a few websites my way, please?
yes.
College degrees are nice but not necessary, I would suggest getting TEFL certificate, teaching English as a Foreign Language.
It's an online PDF course, that lasts the rest of your life it is greatly influential and how much you get paid for teaching English.
you have to make sure the tefl course is internationally accredited.
Full circle is internationally accredited and is almost perpetually on sale on groupon.
right now it's $30 for the course on Groupon.
https://www.groupon.com/deals/n-tefl-fullcircle?srsltid=AfmBOoqFYZwQR0qx9rYRLhscJVtcMwVRegIqmTAVW8IbDOyJdzSn_20T
it took me 4 days of a few hours a day reading at PDF and taking the tests on the full circle website.
It's the program I recommend to anyone interested in teaching English.
it might take a few weeks if you have less free time
as for teaching english, there are so many websites, Just find whichever one looks the least burdensome that has high reviews from teachers.
If you have a laptop, these ones:
https://www.tefl.org/teach-english-online/
If you only have a phone, these ones:
https://www.goodairlanguage.com/online-english-teaching-app-list/
you'll get paid about the same, so trial and error and find out which one is the easiest platform for you to use and provides the greatest compensation.
I'd suggest one of the apps where you can talk to people on the phone conversationally so you get used to acting and sounding like a teacher before you jump into one-on-one tutoring or group teaching kids on the laptop, which might pay a little more but might be more work.
Go through the lists and see which ones sound good to you,, they all function a little bit differently but fundamentally the same so you might find one that suits you better.
Thank you, I'll look into that.
For sure!
I love talking about this stuff all the time, but especially while I'm traveling and see a meme like this that posits a lack of alternatives to the struggle of surviving in the United States specifically, I feel it necessary to just let people know that there are ready, low-barrier alternatives.
Doing the work, spreading the good news. Haha 😆