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Teary-eyed John Oliver begs reluctant voters to back Harris
(www.thedailybeast.com)
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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2024
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Wanna guess the number of people that thought that same thing in 2016?
wanna guess how much democrats learned from it in 2016?
Obviously not nearly enough, since you’re literally repeating the same mistake.
there's a meme from a protest sign floating around asking why it's easier to accept that hundreds of millions of people lazy rather than accepting that it's a few 100 people creating the problem.
similarly, harris is one person and her changing her strategy will have a bigger impact than millions of people changing theirs to suit hers before the election and she doesn't even have to mean it:
she could literally just pay lip service the day of the election where it can do the least amount of damage when it comes to moderate voters and that would gain the support of people like me; but she won't
She has to take current strategy, because people like you are not voting, so in order to win she has to rely on votes of people that you don't agree with.
i live in a solidly blue state and voting third party. i couldn't help trump win even if i wanted to because of the same electoral college that's helping him win; i'm using the system against itself and you should too every single chance you get.
You keep saying that, as if the people with more sense who live around you excuse your poor decisionmaking.
I voted third-party out of protest in 2016, in a solidly blue state, and it was one of the dumbest things I've ever done. I'd love to convince you somehow to not repeat the same mistake I did, but I can't say anything that others in this thread haven't already, and you seem very unwilling to listen to any of it.
you can convince me and people like bernie & obama have convinced me several times over the decades.
present a new argument that's divorced from american popular indoctrination or give a new perspective that doesn't originate from american propaganda or; at a minimum; give a stronger argument than "trump is worse".
and i keep saying that because people keep coming up w the same arguments.
Kamala has campaigned to protect the bodily autonomy of women and to protect gay marriage, which are very much at stake in this election.
That should be enough, if you're sincere in only seeking an argument that isn't just "Trump is worse."
i think it would be enough if i were younger so that i didn't have first hand experience living through the hiv/aids crisis; 10450; dadt & doma. we've had it worse before; we've literally been doing it for centuries; and we managed to not only survive but thrive enough to shift popular support despite the democrats and the republicans efforts.
also the fact there's significant overlap between the people who created/supported those policies and the people who want us to vote for them now further detracts from this argument.
finally the democrats literally did nothing to protect abortion despite several opportunities when they controlled both houses and the presidency over the decades. they still chose to do nothing with it and their track record convinces me that they never will; the best case scenario is another toothless law like the respect for marriage act.
this is a propaganda originated argument like i was referring to in my previous comment and if you were sincerely reading my comments you would have seen it multiple times.
So...because things were worse once, we should be okay with them getting worse now?
That's bunk. You know it's bunk. What kind of callous person do you have to be to even come to a conversation and say "we had it worse before...we managed to survive"?
Not everyone did.
now this is an EXCELLENT argument and it's the only one i'm still wrestling with since they're hellbent on the genocide no matter what i do.
i'm 100% sure that the damage that the democrats and the american system have inflicted upon my life are coloring my perception and i wish i could be sure that my conviction isn't entirely based on it and i think i mostly continue doing it as dying wish from a loved one who was similarly impacted.
if kamala switches positions; then it doesn't matter because then it will only be this and this alone is not enough to convince me.
genocide and this combined convinces me and kamala can't help with this, but she can do something about genocide.
project 2025 is propaganda; i'm not scared of it and neither should anyone else be, we will survive it and thrive again like we did before.
That the far left vote is fickle and that it's better to try to cater to Dick and Liz Chaney and hope for the solid neoconservative vote instead??
Yeah, abstain from voting harder. Let's see where that gets ya. If you want to pull the party left, the. Prove to the party that there is a left they can pull to.
Is accepting someone’s support with literally nothing in trade really “catering to” though?
I mean the "trade" is just the implicit alignment of platform, really. Kamala offers stances that are not entirely disagreeable to moderate Republicans who feel more alienated by the neofascist shift the GOP has taken now.
I wish Kamala was further to the left in general, but I can't confidently say she'd gain more leftist votes than she'd lose centrist votes.
i live in a solidly blue state and voting third party. doing so guarantees that i could never help trump thanks to the same electoral college that gives trump a chance at winning; i'm using the system against itself and you should too whenever you have the chance.
also republicans take direct action to work around issues that prevent their base from winning and democrats would benefit by taking similar actions; but don't since leftists platforms drive away campaign donors so it's a self made rock and a hard place for democrats.
Oh, so are you pushing for a Senator or a Representative who can more seriously push the party left?
i left the democrat fold after dadt & doma and the ensuing decades have proved to me that it was the right decision for my circumstances and i made it easy for myself by moving into a solidly blue state where my choices would be drowned out by the voting masses who generally align with my views most of the time.
i will have to make decisions once the democrat's conversion into diet republicans starts to effect their palatability in my state and i'll have an answer to your question at that time.
So you gave up on Democrats over a generation ago and expect them to try courting you as a potential voter now?
Good luck with that.
Edit: and both of the reasons you cite have since been overturned... by Democrats.
i became twice bitten; thrice shy when i let bernie fool me into thinking that democrats could change in 2016 & 2020, so i don't think the democrats could ever successfully court me again; but they could court the millions of their most fervent base to help them win elections instead of driving them away while becoming diet republicans.
So you're literally admitting that your entire narrative is in bad faith.
At least you (finally) admit it.
how so?
Because you'd been falsely presenting as a disillusioned Democrat that could be won over if Harris changed position on supporting Isreal. And framing it as others such as yourself could be won over as well, and that the Dems deserve whatever they get for failing to do so.
Yet you now admit that the Dems will never get your vote (in the short term), and that changing position on Isreal support would not get them your vote.
That's literally what this community has vocalized repeatedly in response to people like yourself who grandstand on genocide despite the only other option being worse genocide.
Tl;Dr- you admit that pandering to people like you will achieve nothing.
thanks for explaining.
i'm not in the democrat fold; i'm closer to them than i am to the republicans so i've voted for them in the past, but i think my history with them precludes ever joining. i'm not a disillusioned democrat.