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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
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chapotraphouse
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If this was the entire argument, his position would be kind of valid. Nato poking the bear is an explanation, but not an excuse for Russia.
But then he later states that the forced conscription in Ukraine is just what any nation would do. Which, sure, but that's not a fucking excuse either then.
For me the subtext of the video came across as “this is horrific for the working class of both countries and should stop”, which is literally the correct take.
"war is bad and should stop", when removed from context and analysis is not a take, it's a platitude.
The fact that he whitewashes the West's role in the war, pretends Ukraine is not a country with a significant Russian-friendly minority, and puts the blame for the war's consequences and continuation on Russia means that his "war is bad and should stop" ends up being an endorsement of NATO's position - that only Russia can and should take measures to stop the war, and that any escalation from the West is justified.
No I agree.
He made points here I respect tho and think it's good for Libs to hear.
I strongly disagree with his downplaying of how entrenched neo-Nazis clearly are in the Ukrainian military though, and suggesting there 0 genuine, non-astroturfed Russian separatist sentiment in eastern Ukraine.
His sentiment is overall much better still than most liberals, of course. It's just his dismissal of very valid leftist positions that irks me. This is a fight between two capitalist nations and the principled take would be no war but the class war. To that end, the forced conscription of both sides should be highlighted as the barbaric thing it is, where the state forces unwilling men to die for the profits of oligarchs. BadEmpanada rightfully points out that this whole war is a pointless meat grinder that doesn't serve either people.
Russia doesn't care about the fascists, but they are still there, and fucking Bandera is now widely celebrated. Ukraine is not a nation worth the blood shed over it. Defending Ukraine serves no purpose for the cause of any denomination of socialism. It is also not our responsibility as westerners to deal with the Russian imperialism either, we got our own house to clean. This shit is what broke the second international, we should know this by now. Working against the war effort of "our" side is the fucking point, because they are not our side, and we are responsible for it. So what, if Russia "wins" or there is a peace treaty? It puts an end to the dying and there are still capitalists in control. Boo hoo. But there is no need to put it this way.
This isn't a fight where leftists should pick a side to "support", it's a pointless war we should oppose. The senselessness and cruelty of it all, of either side, should not be excused, but highlighted. This is what capitalism fucking does. Don't say Ukraine or the West is right, don't say Russia is right, say this war is shit. It was preventable, neither leadership cares about its people, and it should end. If you wanna go for the "good guy" appearance, say you support UN monitored referendums in the contested areas after a peace treaty, or something like that. Put the people first. They live on the land, they get to decide. That's democracy.
Sorry for the rant.
What you just wrote is also BE's opinion though
I'm not sure what was lost in his words, but it's very obvious that he mourns for the loss of life primarily in Ukraine but also for the Russians.
He's against this war not because he's against war generally, but because he's against imperialist wars. Which of course includes everything Israel does.
To "prove" this it's not all that hard. He regularly talks about Hamas and generally any sort of Palestinian resistance, militant or otherwise, as being perfectly legitimate and beyond criticism from him (and anyone on the left being the implication). He supports Palestinians because their cause is truly anti-imperialist. Whatever it takes for them to achieve victory is acceptable or at least we shouldn't try to stand on moral high ground and speak down to them.
Russia's cause is not anti-imperialist. It's actually just the opposite. Ukraine is stuck in the middle between the larger imperialist aggressor, NATO/US.
Anyway, don't feel like typing more, but you and BE already agree. I think he uses purposefully (for engagement or just being an asshole troll- who can say) inflammatory language or at least sort of... gives off a vibe of something. Smug? Snark? Hard to pinpoint, but it makes you want to kneejerk reply with something. But regardless of him poking at people (maybe it's unintentional- but I know it isn't. I've watched enough of his trolling over the years) his underlying sentiment remains aligned with yours and most people on hexbear/lemmygrad. He's just an asshole.