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The TLDR of the video is that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was bad, and that Western and Ukrainian aggression didn't poke the tiger. He doesn't mention that the West could end the war tomorrow.

To be fair, I'm not pro Putin. I know Russians in Russia who are risking their safety to be peace activists, which is the correct and noble position to have in Russia. An Australian guy taking the position that Putin bad just seems easy and is doing the work of the State department.

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[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 54 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Agree that this is a very bad take. There are Cable leaks from US diplomat going back DECADES that confirm just how serious the notion of Ukraine joining nato was to Russia and that it would likely mean a war if it ever came to fruition.

This is 2008 so it's pre 2014 coup

I think the other side of this that's rarely talked about are the families with members that were on the ukrainian side and the russian side. For Russia a huge issue with Ukraine joining nato is the quantity of families with individuals who then become nato and will be turned into natoites. The effect that these family members will have on their family across the border is of major concern. They don't want a base being created for colour revolution, or worse.

[-] mbt2402@hexbear.net 28 points 1 month ago

america has a long and storied history of ignoring the advice of their ambassadors. Not that the stupidity is a defence, but it is believable to me that natos were surprised.

[-] ManFreakBeast@hexbear.net 37 points 1 month ago

and that Western and Ukrainian aggression didn't poke the tiger.

I think his argument is more that they did poke it but that doesn't justify a full scale land invasion.

I don't agree with him, but honestly his take here seems way more consistent and rational than Libs on the topic. He's still wrong, but I was honestly expecting it to be worse given his history.

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

“Full scale” lmao

[-] Nama@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

If this was the entire argument, his position would be kind of valid. Nato poking the bear is an explanation, but not an excuse for Russia.

But then he later states that the forced conscription in Ukraine is just what any nation would do. Which, sure, but that's not a fucking excuse either then.

[-] ManFreakBeast@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

No I agree.

He made points here I respect tho and think it's good for Libs to hear.

Comparing this to Gaza is ridiculous, Ukraine has a government and a military, more specifically a military with the backing of the most powerful governments on earth.

There's no evidence of genocide, Russia's goal is clearly to take territory not to wipe out a group of people, most of the casualties are combatants not civilians.

I strongly disagree with his downplaying of how entrenched neo-Nazis clearly are in the Ukrainian military though, and suggesting there 0 genuine, non-astroturfed Russian separatist sentiment in eastern Ukraine.

[-] Nama@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

His sentiment is overall much better still than most liberals, of course. It's just his dismissal of very valid leftist positions that irks me. This is a fight between two capitalist nations and the principled take would be no war but the class war. To that end, the forced conscription of both sides should be highlighted as the barbaric thing it is, where the state forces unwilling men to die for the profits of oligarchs. BadEmpanada rightfully points out that this whole war is a pointless meat grinder that doesn't serve either people.

Russia doesn't care about the fascists, but they are still there, and fucking Bandera is now widely celebrated. Ukraine is not a nation worth the blood shed over it. Defending Ukraine serves no purpose for the cause of any denomination of socialism. It is also not our responsibility as westerners to deal with the Russian imperialism either, we got our own house to clean. This shit is what broke the second international, we should know this by now. Working against the war effort of "our" side is the fucking point, because they are not our side, and we are responsible for it. So what, if Russia "wins" or there is a peace treaty? It puts an end to the dying and there are still capitalists in control. Boo hoo. But there is no need to put it this way.

This isn't a fight where leftists should pick a side to "support", it's a pointless war we should oppose. The senselessness and cruelty of it all, of either side, should not be excused, but highlighted. This is what capitalism fucking does. Don't say Ukraine or the West is right, don't say Russia is right, say this war is shit. It was preventable, neither leadership cares about its people, and it should end. If you wanna go for the "good guy" appearance, say you support UN monitored referendums in the contested areas after a peace treaty, or something like that. Put the people first. They live on the land, they get to decide. That's democracy.

Sorry for the rant.

[-] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago

What you just wrote is also BE's opinion though

I'm not sure what was lost in his words, but it's very obvious that he mourns for the loss of life primarily in Ukraine but also for the Russians.

He's against this war not because he's against war generally, but because he's against imperialist wars. Which of course includes everything Israel does.

To "prove" this it's not all that hard. He regularly talks about Hamas and generally any sort of Palestinian resistance, militant or otherwise, as being perfectly legitimate and beyond criticism from him (and anyone on the left being the implication). He supports Palestinians because their cause is truly anti-imperialist. Whatever it takes for them to achieve victory is acceptable or at least we shouldn't try to stand on moral high ground and speak down to them.

Russia's cause is not anti-imperialist. It's actually just the opposite. Ukraine is stuck in the middle between the larger imperialist aggressor, NATO/US.

Anyway, don't feel like typing more, but you and BE already agree. I think he uses purposefully (for engagement or just being an asshole troll- who can say) inflammatory language or at least sort of... gives off a vibe of something. Smug? Snark? Hard to pinpoint, but it makes you want to kneejerk reply with something. But regardless of him poking at people (maybe it's unintentional- but I know it isn't. I've watched enough of his trolling over the years) his underlying sentiment remains aligned with yours and most people on hexbear/lemmygrad. He's just an asshole.

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[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

For me the subtext of the video came across as “this is horrific for the working class of both countries and should stop”, which is literally the correct take.

[-] WideningGyro@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

"war is bad and should stop", when removed from context and analysis is not a take, it's a platitude.

The fact that he whitewashes the West's role in the war, pretends Ukraine is not a country with a significant Russian-friendly minority, and puts the blame for the war's consequences and continuation on Russia means that his "war is bad and should stop" ends up being an endorsement of NATO's position - that only Russia can and should take measures to stop the war, and that any escalation from the West is justified.

[-] Lussy@hexbear.net 34 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Why would I spend my free time consuming neither educational material nor actual entertainment and escapism? And this dude is a lot more ‘political commentary’ than he is ‘entertainment’ so I’m fucking out

[-] catonkatonk@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

Kind of a sidebar here but he says that Russia is a dictatorship and that people should gtfo about the "elections".

Now, I don't really know much about Russia at all, but polling shows that Putin is immensely popular, right? So what's the point in rigging elections that you're going to win anyway? I don't think he was trying to make a broader point either, I think he was saying the elections themselves are shams? So... Are they?

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 35 points 1 month ago

The elections aren't shams. The fact various powers in Russia will kill any threat and get away with it is the main drawback. With that said it's not like the US doesn't have a history of assassinations of political figures, carried out both by the state and by non-state actors.

[-] miz@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

says that Russia is a dictatorship

lol is George even a Marxist? all states are class dictatorships

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago

Uhhhh the polling is also ruzzian and rigged

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[-] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

It's an admittedly half-assed video which probably was made only because he never made a proper one when the war started it's to be taken as seriously as his live stream slop content. It's good to piss off both Z-leninist/banderites and harvest that good good engagement nectar.

My general rule is that i dont watch videos of his that doesnt have at least 20 citations in the description.

[-] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

Nah fuck him he is deeply unserious and grifting.

[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

Hard disagree. His long form videos are some of the most meticulously sourced content on that shitty platform. And tbh the fact that he’s upfront about wanting money is just being more honest about it than the average video essayist. I really don’t see how he could be “grifting” by running away from most popular opinions and content lol. “Grifting” by being one of the most aggressively pro-Palestine people on the platform doesn’t seem like the best way to make a buck, but it seems like you just have some personal hatred of him so you do you, lol.

[-] Thallo@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

Cold take: Putin is, in fact, bad.

The war is also bad insofar as victory on either side will not serve the working class. As usual, they are being thrown into the meat grinder so that whoever wins can exploit them better. I won't call it an inter-imperialist conflict, but there's certainly not a socialist element to it.

The only benefit is a slightly weakened empire (US) which will have less regional power. A worthwhile goal, but to be honest, it seems like the price has been really high.

[-] Tabitha@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

it's all a facade, he's probably intentionally taking the L here to make his video about debunking the Holodomir conspiracy theory have more credibility among the libs, a strong long-term move if you ask me.

[-] ManFreakBeast@hexbear.net 43 points 1 month ago

I doubt it, I think this is his actual opinion. Dudes way too irascible to give a shit was Libs think.

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

Yeah, no part of me believes BadEmpanda would hold back one of his opinions for the libs.

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The guy whos pfp was an IED and name on twitter was "Troop Exploder" is really interested in reaching out to liberals lol

[-] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 33 points 1 month ago

Patriots are in control, trust the plan.

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago
[-] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Holy fuck you people and your parasocial relationships he's just a ficking grifter

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

How is he a grifter?

[-] Aru@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
[-] StalinistApologist@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago

not fine for entertainment

[-] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Australian guy that lives in Argentina*

Fuck him

[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

Did this guy kill one of your family members or something lol

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[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

There's a good point made here that "if Russia gained influence in Mexico, that wouldn't justify the US invading it".

But we know that the US would absolutely do that, if it came to it. We know from the Cuban Missile Crisis, we know from the unmatched number of foreign interventions/coups the US has done, we know from the contingency plans that the DoD has had for a long time for invading Mexico and toppling the government, and we know from Trump's threats over the cartels that he'd do it for a lot less than a great power rivalry.

There is a gap between what many countries ethically ought to do, and what they practically can be expected to do. We should be able to tell these apart.

[-] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

you can't get me to watch one of this guys videos

[-] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

It has been pretty entertaining watching him dunk on Ethan Klein, but I get it.

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

The guy who posted this gem of a take has bad takes?

Damn what a surprise lol

[-] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

Wait, are those bit accounts? Those twitter handles are different.

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

i think so he just got banned so often that he had like 300 alts

[-] coolusername@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

Misses on smo and Uyghur genocide means high possibly of being a fed. That shit isn't hard to figure out.

[-] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

Feels like a number of people in this thread are a couple of weeks away from genuinely thinking “Putin is based secret communist trying to re-establish the USSR” lol.

[-] ButtBidet@hexbear.net 20 points 1 month ago

This is a very bad faith take. I don't see a single poster here saying anything positive of Putin or Russia.

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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
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