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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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Is denying the genocide against Uyghurs (which several Hexbears did) really that much better than defending Nazis (which I did not do)?
There is no genocide against the Uyghurs and continuing to lie about it is the holocaust denial you're being accused of. You're diminishing the term 'genocide' and making what the nazis did look as comparatively harmless as what China is doing. You're doing PR for the nazis by making their crimes look less serious.
But you've had this explained to you a thousand times. You know what you're doing. You're doing it because that's your goal, clearly.
You are doing PR for the Chinese Communist Party. I have nothing against communism, what I am against is their dictatorship.
My goal is to... well I don't really have a goal. All I want to do is to make my opinions heard just like you are.
You should honestly investigate how democracy actually works in China - You'll find that they have far more votes and actual choices for their officials than you ever have, and the approval rate of the government, even when anonymously/independently surveyed, is almost certainly higher than your country's.
I honestly find it hard to believe that there is any degree of democracy in a country where the government regularly silences words on its social media. The local officials (the mayor, legislators, and the president) where I live are all elected and I'm pretty sure that's already more than what China has. Their high approval rate is due to the fact that people don't know that their government can be better.
I think what I said is still true.
There's a lot of handwaving in your reply that China's population are just ignorant and censorship exists therefore its bad, based on little info. All Western countries also have major systems of censorship on social media. The majority of people in China have access to the internet via unfiltered VPNs - they have basically as much free access to information as you do.
Well, yeah, I suppose so.
I would say that Chinese people who have a VPN are among the minority (less than 50%). But yeah, Chinese people who have a VPN have access to all the content outside the national firewall.
Your opinion doesn't deserve to be heard though. You're calling China a dictatorship. You haven't done any investigation into the thing you're talking about and are therefore speaking nonsense. Why do you want your opinion to be heard so badly? Have you done so much work on it that you're proud to show it off to others?
There have been provided several sources for you in this very thread, yet you choose not to engage with them. Why do you think you have a right to spread misinformation?
How do you know that? All the evidence we can find says that China is not doing that.
Your gut is telling you they are. What could give you this instinct? It could only be rascism.
You can't just say "genocide denial" and pretend you've won the argument. You first have to actually provide proof of the genocide happening. I could also say "the Dutch are being genocided as we speak" and then call you a genocide denier when you say that's preposterous.
It's strange how elusive the proof for this supposed genocide is.
The notion that a genocide is occurring against the fastest growing ethnic group in China is preposterous. And the second fastest is Tibetan.
Where is the evidence? Have you looked at what it really looks like when a country is genuinely abusing an ethnicity in its borders? Have you ever visited https://reddit.com/r/israelexposed ?? Why do you think Israel, a richer country per capita with smaller borders to police is incapable of hiding its atrocities but you can't find me a single real video of anything of this shit in a country where 90% of the population has smart phones?
Oh and where are the tens of thousands of refugees?
I understand that some people may not choose to believe things unless provided concrete evidence. I respect this attitude, and I am sometimes like this too. However, to dismiss even the possibility that there might be such a thing happening is unthinkable. Do you think that Israel controls its Internet as strictly as China does? Do you think that the camp is somewhere in the city center where hundreds of people pass by it every day? Do you think that the government doesn't prohibit people to even come near the facility much less allow them to take photos?
Sorry, what refugees are you talking about?
If there is a genocide against an ethnic minority happening, there would be refugees flooding the borders of neighboring countries
Can’t deny a genocide that only exists in the minds of rabid imperialist westerners
Youve literally been provided with several sources proving there isn't a genocide going on, in this thread.
You have refused to engage with them. Why do you think you're still owed civil discussion or good-faith engagement?
It is not disagreement, it's you refusing to engage in good-faith discussion.
None of the sources conclusively prove that there is genocide, and neither are there sources disproving it completely. That of course means that no one knows for sure if the claim is true (except the Chinese government). Feel free to believe that it is false, but I am going to believe that there really is such a thing going on.
I have refused to engage with them? That's a ridiculous claim.
You sound hypocritical. You are not even in good-faith discussion.
You are asking to prove an unfalsifiable thing. The sources prove that the camps aren't camps, that Zenz is a liar, that Falun Gong are liarsz that Uyghurs aren't being forced to not speak their language, that Uyghurs are growing in populayion, that Uyghurs aren't kept out of political or cultural posts. Yet you still claim it might be going on.
There is no source that indicates a genocide is going on. The story of a genocide is going on has been proven to be propagated by liars. There is no rational reason to believe a genocide is going on, there is literally nothing indicating one is going on.
You continuing to want us to treat China as if it is committing one isn't based on one shred of fact, but instead because you feel like it might be possible. What you feel like isn't something that inherently deserves respect. It is honestly kind of racist how you keep insisting china is commioa genocide, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Instead of actually engaging with their content and acknowledging what they say, you move the discussion (as you are doing here) to one about what feel is happening.
a “genocide” with no proof is impossible. there is plenty of proof of the Holocaust, even before the Allies liberated the camps and saw the documentation of the several genocides committed by the Nazis, it was well known around the world that an extermination campaign was underway. there were Holocaust victims who were able to escape during the war and told of the genocides.
now, where is the proof of a Uyghur genocide? its all hearsay from Adrian Zenz, a guy who’s been to China once 15 years ago. now western media props him up as a “China expert” bc he tells them what they want to hear. he feeds them lies for the propaganda machine in order to stoke popular outrage against China. bc a country like the PRC is dangerous for the existence of capitalism. look at how tough China is on their capitalists. executives of a baby formula company allowed expired formula to be sold in order to turn a profit, many babies died, the executives were tried for this mass murder, and a few were executed. this is justice, real justice. state power exerted against capital is the only way to overcome capital