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[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 13 points 15 hours ago

Even South Park touched on that sentiment. Like, how is calling everything racist eventually make one racist? That's the most asinine excuse I've heard to be racist!

"I wasn't racist until someone called me racist!"

No, you are already are a racist, you're just making up excuses to finally show the real you.

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago
[-] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 11 points 15 hours ago

Twisting their arms to be what they really are.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 43 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

While this does get pushed it's important to realize they're pushing it to take in people who feel rejected by liberals and leftists. That's why when there's a question that appears honest it's important to treat it in good faith before assuming they're a conservative troll.

There are people who spend their entire childhood hearing garbage like "black people are more disposed to criminality, because 50% of the prison population is black but only 20% of society is Black." And they just haven't ever been exposed to concepts like over policing. When you just react aggressively right away it can actually push them back into that ideology and then it's really more a matter of the people around them. Humans need community. If political or religious truths are required for membership then they will adopt them.

And yes these same rules apply to someone who grew up hearing the US is an imperialist bully state. This is why diversity in school, the workplace, church, and wherever people congregate is so damn important. We need to see that we aren't devils, that we all want the same thing. (A peaceful existence with enough distractions and the ability to provide for our family)

That's also why extremist ideologues are so hell bent on isolating people. Home schooling, as many church events as possible, sun down towns, church approved summer camp, members only clubs, intolerance of tolerance, etc.

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 11 points 19 hours ago

Agreed, although I think that "home schooling" should be bolded and italicized.

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago

Hey, I was homeschooled and turned out okay! ...My mom also has a bachelor of science and is, in general, a woman of science, though...so...maybe a little different for my case.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 4 hours ago

You are the exception to the rule.

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 8 points 17 hours ago

There isn't just the education aspect. There's also the social aspect.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago

Yeah, like half of that list is fine if you aren't using to specifically cut people off from the rest of society. But that's the entirety of why they push it.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 5 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Harry Du Bois dealing with a huge, union dock worker in his path

[-] Notyou@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 hour ago

I need to finish my racist asshole cop run.

[-] problematicPanther@lemmy.world 81 points 1 day ago

I've learned recently that the skinhead movement used to be antiracist and leftist af. Until nazis infiltrated the skinhead punk scene.

[-] dalekcaan@lemm.ee 60 points 1 day ago

Nazis have a rich history of stealing symbols and coopting movements. They're like hateful little magpies who steal any shiny bits of culture they find and take them back to their nests to shit all over them.

[-] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Yeah, and they forever ruined
this look

with that

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 hours ago

wtf is going on with Hitler's right nostril in that photo? Is he wearing a stillsuit?

[-] BalooWasWahoo@links.hackliberty.org 1 points 40 minutes ago

Most people have differently sized nostrils. It's an interesting physical difference, and there are a few different ideas for why. One is the nasal cycle, and your body simply has a preference for one side, another that you'll hear is (and this is constantly parroted in the EMS world and easily dismissed by the logic that your nose is quite far from the carina where the primary bronchi merge) that your lungs are slightly different due to the heart sitting partially to the left of your chest (for most people), making your right lung bigger and thus blows harder through the right nostril.

[-] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I just cropped him out of some random internet image. I luckily wasn't there by a few decades.

[-] asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml 20 points 23 hours ago

For an example see the symbol of peace that was the swastika more than 100 years ago

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago

I went to a Viking festival and had a great time, but I wonder about how often they have to look askance at the people who are really into runes and Thor hammer symbols.

[-] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 10 points 21 hours ago

They reversed the direction. The original symbol is still used in Asia

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[-] Kalysta@lemm.ee 16 points 21 hours ago

Nazis ruin everything. And we let them.

[-] WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 14 points 21 hours ago

Nazi punks, FUCK OFF!

[-] arken@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago

Antiracist and leftist is kind of an exaggeration; rather an apolitical subculture of the British working class up until the late 70s/early 80s when the National Front infiltrated the scene. This was during the second wave of the skinhead movement, the original skinheads in the 60s were influenced by West Indian immigrants to the UK, and listened mainly to ska and jamaican music, but generally not very politically conscious or involved. Kind of a rougher offshoot of the mod subculture.

The second wave of skinheads came out of the punk movement. A lot of skins were into Oi!/streetpunk and the NF made their own version which was then called RAC (Rock against communism) but is better known these days (at least in Europe) as White Power Music.

I'm not saying there weren't leftist skinheads (Redskins and Angelic Upstarts would be a good place to start) but as a subculture, the common theme is rather working class identity and pride - which unfortunately, as we've seen, can be exploited by fascist movements as well.

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[-] Mobiledecay@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

What happened. I'm drunk.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 91 points 1 day ago

"I WAS going to vote against fascism, but now you've FORCED me to vote for fascism!"

[-] bcgm3@lemmy.world 21 points 22 hours ago

"And in a way, that makes YOU the fascist!"

Continues becoming even more fascist

[-] jballs@sh.itjust.works 31 points 23 hours ago

I had a conversation with my conservative neighbor who legitimately made this argument. He was saying that it's the left's fault for telling all these young conservative men that they're Nazis, which makes those poor impressionable young men go "well if you're going to call me a fascist then I'm going to fascist even harder just to spite you."

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 7 points 21 hours ago

It does, though. It doesn't have to make sense to you, but it's natural for people to say "who welcomes me? Who attacks me?" And go with those who welcome them. Is it simplistic? Sure. But either you learn how to take on the educational and emotional burden of reaching out, or you have extra enemies.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 17 points 19 hours ago

Important caveat: telling a person their ideology is hateful isn't "an attack," and letting them continue to wallow in ignorance is more unkind than enlightening them.

That they feel attacked is another issue. We still have to deal with the consequences of this, and should be cognizant of it, but at the end of the day let us not lose the plot and start conflating their sensitivity with offensive language as if they weren't two very different things.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 4 points 19 hours ago

Indeed. The raw fact of how people tend to work doesn't make it right. It's just that hating on them for it is ineffectual.

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago

Yeah, I know when I'm just hanging out and meet a bunch of nazis talking about how jews and blacks need to be exterminated, I feel welcomed and understood.

They were racist before, they're comfortable because they finally get to take off their masks, or hoods in this case.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 3 points 1 hour ago

It's natural for you to say "who welcomes me? Who attacks me?" and go with those who welcome you.

That doesn't make it effective at making the overall situation better.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 7 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

but it’s natural for people to say “who welcomes me? Who attacks me?” And go with those who welcome them.

The people in my life who are wearing the red hats are essentially always the ones attacking, despite making up a tiny fraction of the people in my social sphere. The rest of us just spend every family gathering or social event hoping they won't start spouting off this time, and offering zero of our own opinions because we know they absolutely will start spouting off if we do. They have a chilling effect on topics that anyone can discuss, compared to what we can discuss when they are not there.

So yeah, IME they are the oppressors from Trump all the way down.

My maga neighbor across the street has no idea if I'd welcome him or not, because his yard is full of hand lettered signs letting me know in no uncertain terms that anyone who votes like I do is a moron/traitor, etc. So I just pretend he doesn't exist, and hope he and his (continuous stream of) visiting buddies don't blow up the neighborhood or get careless with their guns one day.

The one and only sign he does have in spanish is the one letting everyone know he's got a surveillance system though. That's probably not racist though...

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 2 points 14 hours ago

And yes magas, everyone you know who isn't one of you is doing this. All your friends, coworkers, and relatives who don't actively call you out are just silently praying that you don't open your bigoted, racist mouth whenever you are all together.

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[-] banner80@fedia.io 5 points 20 hours ago

This is true, but it's also incredibly dumb. Like teens that choose to hang out with local drug gangs and throw their future away. You can see why it happens, but it's so wasteful and stupid, and always ends in misery.

What we are ultimately talking about is the depth of stupidity that people are capable of.

Before the flathearthers, Tea Party, Q-anon and the MAGA movements, we simply did not account for just how fucking dumb the average person can be under bad circumstances.

This is the essence of Trump's rise to power. His political advisors called this "an opportunity" and tripled down on it. They believed that a bad-faith movement could build a coalition of the mentally unstable, susceptible morons, cultish religion indoctrinated, under-educated and socially fringed. Easily swept up with Nazi-style messaging and politics.

The solution: At an individual level, if you know someone you seek to save, work to expose them to real information by being a positive and understanding presence in their lives, and slowly showing them the way out of the prison of stupidity inside their own heads.

At a global level, we must exact hard costs on their movement as a whole and each participant as people. We must make it highly expensive and damaging to support fascism. They are already paying the price of being marginalized socially, but costs need to be much higher.

This cost is the reason Trump has not been able to inspire his moron minions to violence in the last couple years. They see that MAGA minions get imprisoned, their lives ruined, and possibly shot in the head, and they simply don't turn up for Trump's calls to violence anymore. The public cost of participation in fascism works as a deterrent, so we need to crank up the costs significantly higher.

If they think they are going to double down on fascism because you called them out, then you must triple down on exacting a price for their bullshit. At some point they'll realize it's not worth it. Just like all these MAGA men on dating apps now pretending to be apolitical because they can't get any women to take them seriously. Suddenly, the pride in their shitty convictions is out the window when they realize they won't be allowed to participate in society. Keep making them pay the price of choosing poorly. The harder you hit them, the faster you help them do some much needed introspection.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago

The irony is when you see people who are so capable, in some senses, of intelligent discourse on the matter, but still can't see through the issue will enough to reach others in a similar situation, but settled in a different set of ideas. In the end, we don't like it, it's up to us to resolve those emotions. It may not be easy, but it works - whereas anything else defers the issue.

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago

"I used to hold very strong leftist values and principles up until someone on the internet hurt my feelings."

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[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

Proud boys donning Fred Perry's like they're actual skinheads pisses me off to no end. They got no idea what skinhead culture was all about.

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this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2024
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