This monopoly is one of the best examples of our government being broken by lobbying. This problem is a least 30 years old and nothing has changed in all that time.
Absolutely. Between Ticketmaster and LiveNation, almost every performing venue in the United States is completely dominated.
We desperately, desperately need legitimate anti-trust actions in the United States; we need something that will reintroduce some actual competition into the market.
The first failure of the federal government that led to this path was in the 1990s and the Microsoft Antitrust Trials. That was the point at which there really could have been another way--but the billionaires, at that point, had all the inroads to government that the Reagan Administration made possible. Because Microsoft could buy politicians, the vast majority of people on the planet have never used any operating system other than Windows, and the Microsoft company gets billions upon billions of dollars from state/federal/municipal contracts.
Google and Apple, then, just followed the path that Microsoft bought and paved through government regulations. And that made it easy for other billion dollar companies like Ticketmaster and LiveNation to do the same thing in other realms--simply buy the laws, buy the politicians, buy the system that's supposed to regulate them, and then use that system to remove all competition.
Concerts are the biggest way artists make money these days too. Support your local bands people.
Oh but it has. Things have been getting progressively worse.
Pearl Jam tried to save us.
I bought the SmithTix tickets!
They’re clearly an anticompetitive monopoly. Wish I could say I’m optimistic that the DOJ can pull off something positive in regards to this case, or anything really.
Guess I should try to start some sort of grassroots campaign accusing Live Nation of being woke
Live Nation of being woke
Many people are saying it. Good people, honest people.
A man came up to me... a big man.... a marine.... and he had tears in his eyes. He said to me, "Sir, please break up that woke Live Nation."
I mean, they kowtowed to Swift, that's pretty woke. :D
Great angle
I bought tickets through Ticketmaster for a concert that was happening in April ‘20. I bought them a few months in advance right when they went on sale, because of course I had no idea of the coming pandemic. The concert got rescheduled to the Fall of ‘20, then rescheduled again for early ‘21, then eventually cancelled. Ticketmaster said that they would refund my money back to my original payment method, my debit card. One problem, in the time that this had dragged on - over a year and a half - my debit card had expired, and the bank had issued me a new one. So the original debit card information was no longer valid, and the money wouldn’t go back on it. Ever try to get customer service from Ticketmaster? Yeah, good luck with that. They refuse to respond, and they make it so difficult that they eventually achieved their goal - frustrating me to the point of just throwing my hands up in disgust and giving up. Money gone. Have I bought tickets through Ticketmaster since then? Of course I have, because there were some acts that I really wanted to see, and what other choice do I have?!?
I hope their CEO broke his leg falling off of his third gold toilet that my money helped him purchase.
Have I bought tickets through Ticketmaster since then? Of course I have
And you don't see yourself as enabling the problem?
And you cut the quote before they explain they have no other choice. People aren't choosing to buy tickets from Ticketmaster over another competitor. If they want to see their favorite artists live, there frequently is no other choice. Ticketmaster maintains its monopoly by threatening to blackball venues that provide tickets through other providers, and many of these large spaces can't afford to fall out of Ticketmaster's good graces.
Sure, live music isn't a necessity, but blaming the consumers for feeding into a broken system instead of the monopoly that enforces it is incredibly disingenuous.
Yes, they have another choice. Don't go.
One family not buying tickets is not going to put a dent in Ticketmaster's bottom line. I understand the principle, but a total boycott of the majority of live music isn't feasible. This situation isn't getting fixed without anti-trust getting involved and since it doesn't fall under the umbrella of big tech, I highly doubt the current administration will do anything.
Right, because if I don't buy the ticket to go see Micky Dolenz, no one else will, Ticketmaster will see the error of its ways, and they will change their business practices. And while we're at it let's tell dads not to buy tickets to Taylor Swift for their teenage daughters, so no one will go to her concerts. That will change everything.
You live in a fantasy world if you think "Don't go" is a feasible alternative. If I don't go, someone else will, and all I've done is deprive myself of something that I want to make a point - a point that won't matter a tinker's damn to Ticketmaster. There's no way that there would realistically be a public boycott big enough to make any difference.
I'm absolutely not one for big government, but this is the definition of a monopoly and should be dealt with. But while the CEO of Ticketmaster has three gold toilets, they've bought and paid for four golden toilets for those in Congress through lobbying (aka "legalized bribery"), so nothing will be done. So again, it's pay up or give up something that I want. I don't buy tickets to events that I don't care about just to have something to do, but there are acts that I don't want to deprive myself of just to make a point to Ticketmaster or try to force them to change their ways through boycott. Because neither of those things will make a single solitary difference as long as they have their paid governmental exception.
You live in a fantasy world if you think “Don’t go” is a feasible alternative. If I don’t go, someone else will, and all I’ve done is deprive myself of something that I want to make a point
Come on mate, you could say this about any kind of protest or boycott.
all I’ve done is deprive myself of something that I want to make a point
Yes that is exactly how boycotts work. You make a personal sacrifice as a protest against something that's unfair or immoral.
If you're not prepared to make a sacrifice, that's OK, but at least have the honesty to admit you just don't care enough about this particular issue.
If you're not prepared to make a sacrifice, that's OK, but at least have the honesty to admit you just don't care enough about this particular issue.
My point was, if I make the sacrifice and don’t go, somebody else will buy the ticket. So it’s not that I don’t care enough, it’s that it won’t make a difference. There simply cannot be enough of a boycott from the general public to make any difference to Ticketmaster’s bottom line. Only government intervention and anti-monopoly enforcement will, and that isn’t going to happen either with politicians in Ticketmaster’s pocket.
In the end I’m missing out on something that could be my last ever opportunity (in the case of the Micky Dolenz concert I discussed earlier), while not losing Ticketmaster a dime.
I get that, but my wife and I are huge fans of The Monkees. The only one of the 4 alive is Micky Dolenz, who is still touring at 80 years old. How much longer will he be doing concerts? I don’t want to miss out on seeing him perform when he’s near in what, at any time, could be his last concert just to make a stand against Ticketmaster.
Understand, we don’t go to multiple shows a year, but when there’s something that we really want to see, they’ve got me by the short and curlies. Either pay up or don’t go. There are times when its more important to pay up than to prove a point, but that doesn’t make me hate them any less.
The Prefab four. Who couldn't play their own instruments until their 4th record. A fool and his money....
Alright now, let's not get into an argument about The Monkees. In 1967, they outsold both The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, so they're not nobodies. And just to clear up a few fallacies, Mike was an accomplished guitarist and bassist, Peter could play banjo, bass, and keyboards, and Davy was a drummer. (They didn't want to put Davy behind the drums because he was short, and they were afraid he wouldn't be seen.) They were not allowed to play their instruments or even have any input on the songs they recorded on the first two albums by Don Kirshner, the person hired by Colgems as music supervisor for the TV show. It was their 3rd album (not 4th) that they were finally able to get control. The resulting album - Headquarters - Rolling Stone magazine called one of the 500 you should hear before you die. They went on to make six more albums up to 1970 where they had complete control over the songs and played on them. They even had a top 20 album in 2016 on their 50th anniversary called Good Times, with all four members contributing (a previously recorded vocal track by Davy, who was deceased at the time, was digitally cleaned up and put over new music).
Yes, they were the Prefab Four, but Micky likes to use the metaphor that Pinocchio became a real boy. They were put together to act like a band, but they actually became a real band.
Yeah, no. They were entirely a product, based on The Beatles Success. Drummer couldn't even play any instrument before they went on tour.
In 1967, they outsold both The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, so they’re not nobodies.
Yeah and Justin Bieber's early music outsold Outkast.
You can like corporate produced slop, targeted to get mass mainstream appeal. That's what it's for that doesn't make it good though. Case and point, approach a stranger on the street and ask them to name as many songs by The Beatles, or The Stones, or The Kinks and then the Monkees and see what has actual staying power because I guarantee you it's not The Monkees. Music is the most invasive artform in the world, you don't get a choice, out in the world if people are playing something you don't like. That's why people galvanise so strongly around likes and dislikes. It's not I don't care for U2, it's I hate U2 and vice versa. You subconciously redirect your emotional state at the time, onto the music you listen to. Why do you think so many dudes wind up listening to the music their Parents liked as they get older, it reminds them of better times. Mass appeal in the short term is strictly for profit. That's what The Monkees were for. We don't have to debate this, we all know this and record companies have been buying their own songs to make them number 1 since the beginning of Tin Pan Alley. So, they outsold The Beatles one year, means nothing. There are people born within the last 20 years that can sing along to the entire tracklist of Sgt. Pepper's. Which came out 50 years before they were born. But you're a Monkee, so of course you'll Monkee around.
The Monkees aren't about music. They're about rebellion! About political and social upheaval!
Yeah completely, which is why they continued to have reunion tours and re-release the same majority manufactured Bubblegum pop for the next 60 years. Totally, raging against the machine.
Ticketmaster owes me a couple hundred dollars for a show that's been "delayed" for a year now. Meanwhile, I'm paying interest on the credit charges.
There's no way to get a refund or dispute the charges.
It should be illegal.
Just do a charge back on your credit card.
It's been too long. Most credit cards only allow a limited period of time to challenge a charge. I stupidly hoped that it would be rescheduled. You know, since Ticketmaster told me it would be. After 60-90 days, the money is theirs whether they deliver a product or not.
That is awful. Didn't realize there was a time limit on charge backs.
There is, but it's flexible depending on the purchase. I've successfully done one nearly a year later when I bought a used phone off eBay, shipped it back under warranty, and once the seller had it they stopped responding. Both eBay and my bank advised me to do a chargeback. I did, and got my money back.
Meanwhile, I'm paying interest on the credit charges
You wouldn't be had you been responsible and actually paid your card off at the end of the month.
Repeat after me: FUCK TICKET MASTER.
They should at least outlaw the exclusive deals with venues and artists which they use to crush the competition.
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