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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) by Davriellelouna@lemmy.world to c/canada@lemmy.ca

According to Politico, Mark Carney is under intense pressure.

Auto Manufacturers want to get rid of the electric vehicle mandate. They simply refuse to sell more small electric cars in Canada, claiming it's impossible / unprofitable.

They also say Donald Trump is now President of the United States. Climate Change is no longer an american concern. The political climate in the United States has changed and Canada should follow the US, whether it likes or not.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/10/canada-ev-mandate-elon-musk-tesla-00446980

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[-] LoveCanada@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

They're not wrong.

Ive owned an EV for 7 years now and it does some things really well and its not very good at others. Its not SUPERIOR to my gas vehicles, its just different.

Its ludicrous to tell Canadians that they can ONLY buy EVs at a certain point. It doesnt make sense to force that change when they dont suit a lot of applications. For example there are currently NO EVs that are great at pulling trailers, they lose far too much range when hauling. They also lose 20 to 40% of their range in winter. They also take considerably longer to charge on a road trip than a gas car takes to fill up and thats only IF you can find a convenient charger, its available, its working and you have signed up for the correct payment app - not nearly as simple as using a gas station.

They ARE good for commuting especially if you live in a city. And theres no denying that they are far less costly to maintain. My little EV has cost a TOTAL of $400 in 7 years. Thats amazingly low. And its very reliable. Nothing to check, just unplug it and drive it. But its still not my first choice for many tasks.

Buyers aren't stupid, they will buy what they need and what suits their lifestyle, not what the gov tells them they need.

[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Its ludicrous to tell Canadians that they can ONLY buy EVs at a certain point.

The goal isn't to force consumers to buy one. It's to force manufacturers to work out the flaws you mentioned and produce a better EV instead of focusing on out-dated technology. That's why the cut-over date is so far out. They want to give them time to work on the technology.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 hours ago

He needs to put the canadian people first and hold steadfast on the 2030 ice ban. Don't let America and the legacy automotive industry degrade Canada.

[-] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 hours ago

Hey car companies, know what's really impossible? Me ever behind the wheel of a gas powered vehicle ever again!

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

The future of automobiles ain't going to be ICE vehicles, so that would literally be sacrificing the future of Canada's Auto Industry.

The last thing any nation should do is follow the MAGA crowd in sinking the future of their nation as a modern high-tech economy in the XXI century.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 0 points 7 hours ago

EVs made in US and its allied colonies are already at price parity with their ICE versions before rebates. EVs have much higher performance, comfort, and operational costs not subject to geopolitical/extortionist industries, and even empower individuals to escape electric monopoly extortion, and in near future, cooperate with utilities/society to permit much more renewables, and profit from your EV through electricity arbitrage.

EVs get cheaper every year. Infrastructure supporting them improves every year. Protectionism for oil companies, and legacy ICE that oil companies depend on, is a terrible private and social investment strategy. It is not just climate terrorism to protect evil from competition, policy requires ever more protection as the rest of the world improves EV value proposition even more. Insurance costs skyrocketing as planet boils is further made worse.

Whether or not credits are kept, mandate should be obvious, because investment in EVs or micromobility is not only obvious, but by 2030/2035 gives everyone plenty of time to get there.

For Carney to cave on EVs, he needs to deny global warming, and explicitly endorse the climate terrorism policies that have effectively been in place through war distractions/priorities over a sustainable world ever since global warming was understood.

US policy designed to destroy Canada's auto sector would furthermore lead to recommendations against submission to a future where Canadians can still only buy US branded gas guzzlers. I'd rather see nuclear annihilation threats made against the US instead of yet another act of cooperative submission, for explicit purposes of destruction of human sustainability, and cooperation in Canadian auto production destruction, being considered by Canada.

[-] JoeDyrt@lemmy.ca 3 points 13 hours ago

Nope! Not going to be a captive market for murican car makers.

[-] Yaztromo@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago

The part these automotive executives are conveniently not mentioning is that the EV mandate already allows auto manufacturers to get out of meeting the quotas if they build out charging infrastructure instead. They can get credits for building charging stations to go against current and future years where they miss their commitments.

AFAIK, in Canada there is currently only one auto manufacturer that is building out charging capacity, and that’s Tesla (who don’t even need that credit, as they only make EVs anyway!).

The Carney Government needs to tell these automakers that they need to get shovels in the ground and start building out that infrastructure. That will be good for Canadian jobs, and will increase the likelihood their customers will choose an EV in the future. The two Provinces where EV charging is easy and prevalent (BC and Quebec) already have the most EVs on the road (as a proportion of all vehicles) out of all the Provinces — so we know building more charging capacity leads to more sales. I’m no fan of Tesla (I drive a Hyundai IONIQ 5), but they realized early on they couldn’t just wait for others to build out charging capacity for them if they wanted to sell EVs — the other North American auto manufacturers need to realize that and get on to building out that capacity. Then they’ll sell cars, and then they’ll meet the mandates.

Shoves in ground, CEOs. And do us a favour and buy Canadian — we have several EVSE manufacturers in Canada making some really good kit to choose from.

[-] SirMaple__@lemmy.ca 17 points 22 hours ago

"The political climate in the United States has changed and Canada must follow the US, whether it likes or not."

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 hours ago

The guy next door totaled his car you should too!

[-] axus@lemmy.ca 12 points 21 hours ago

Doesn't the other big C country sell electric cars for cheap?

[-] Ulrich_the_Old@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

I have seen a few small electric vehicles reviewed on youtube. I am in Canada and would buy one today if available. 99 % of my travel is less than 2km to the grocer. I put on well under 10,000km/yr.

[-] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

I don't see it being viable for me as my car sits in front of my house most of the time (love the walkable neighbourhood) and then suddenly makes a 700 km trip once a month, and I can't charge it at home, and the charging options are ass at my destination, and there's exactly one fast charger on the route. The constant fast charging would also hammer my battery like crazy, and I total roughly 25,000 km in a year. To top it all off, the station wagon / practical sedan / large hatchback EV offering is very slim, and I really hated the "sitting on a skateboard" feel of the IONIQ 6, it made my legs ache.

But I'm a perfect storm. For someone who does not go far often and can charge at home (that happens to be the vast majority of people who need a car), EVs are basically perfect. Just rent a car or take a plane the few times you need to go out of range from a charger, or just plan for charging.

What I want for myself is a plug-in hybrid, but they're kinda rare, expensive, make little sense for most people and aren't really available in a sedan / wagon form factor.

I love EVs, I like driving them, and I think they would go great with a general reduction of total vehicles on the road (i.e. more effective public transit), more right to repair and less telemetry.

Addendum - My case sounds like it would be perfect for using car sharing like Communauto, but they're really expensive for my use case, and tracking one down has been such a complete pain in the past that the extra cost of maintaining my own vehicle was worth it for the ability to be able to up and leave for work at a moment's notice wherever I'm needed. I remember having to travel an hour into town to get to my Communauto rental, just to discover it's in limp mode, it's trashed, etc. They're much better nowadays, but my pandemic then-new-car is now mostly paid off.

[-] Yaztromo@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago

The constant fast charging would also hammer my battery like crazy, and I total roughly 25,000 km in a year.

If you’re doing a 700km trip once a month, and if we assume you need to charge back up four times — that’s 4 full charge cycles per month, or 48 per year.

A typical EV battery is rated for 1000 to 2000 charge cycles. With an average range of roughly 450km per charge for many modern EVs, and assuming the lower bound of 1000 cycles, you’ll need to put 450 000 km on your vehicle before you have to worry much about battery degradation. Based on your own 25 000 km/year estimate, that’s 18 years of ownership.

Or if we look at it based on charge cycles per month (which we’ll round up to 6 to accommodate for other driving outside your 700km trip once a month), that’s 72 full cycles per year, which won’t get up to 1000 total cycles for nearly 14 years.

Considering the average ICE vehicle in Canada only lasts 10 to 12 years, you’re going to do way better in an EV than you would with ICE. Battery degradation for EVs is VASTLY overstated — estimates of modern EV batteries from the last few years is they should be able to get 1 million miles out of them — the rest of the car is likely to fall apart before the battery fails.

Now the lack of suitable charging infrastructure on your route is a real (and valid!) problem, and we can only hope that situation gets better for everyone (here in BC, BC Hydro has been building out fast charger infrastructure every 150km along all highways throughout the Province, so road trips here are NOT a big issue. I’m on such a trip now incidentally!). But myths about battery life, especially coming from EV enthusiasts has to die.

[-] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 1 points 15 hours ago

You bring good points! My concern about battery life is more specifically about the toll fast charging puts on a battery, and such a car would be supercharging for most of its existence.

I did rent out a dual motor long range IONIQ 5 for a test trip, I really enjoyed it, but I was stuck for an hour at a fast charger at a random closed Ford dealership off the side of the 20 on the way back because I couldn't charge at my destination in Levis during the day.

I also had a LOT of issues with Electrify Canada and Flo, from non-functional stations to stations where the sessions just wouldn't end. It happened twice, and the second time it happened, it took support (I forget which company, I think Flo) a whole WEEK to close the charging session properly. During that time, I could not open any other charge session, and had to call support every time I wanted to charge. 🙃

Otherwise, Quebec's charging infrastructure is okay, but the lack of fast chargers (350kw+) make it difficult to do long trips without stopping constantly, and northern Ontario / Quebec is basically devoid of charging stations.

[-] leastaction@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 day ago

There's a lot of words missing in in the first statement. Shareholders in American auto manufacturers other than Tesla want to get rid of the electric vehicle mandate. Also note that elsewhere in the world internal combustion cars are losing ground to electric vehicles. Do we really want to attach ourselves to this sinking ship?

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 37 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

EVs are a halfway solution anyway. We need to be investing in mass transit. If every car turned into an EV, we would still have politicians like Doug Ford trying to tunnel under a highway to end gridlock, we would still have motorists claiming bikes cause congestion, we would still be creating tonnes of tire waste and microplastics pollution, people will continue to die on roads while accidents could get worse due to extra weight, and our roads will wear down faster and cost more to maintain due to the extra weight.

In the grand scheme of things, EVs solve almost none of the major problems presented by cars.

[-] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 6 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

EVs should replace cars that need to be replaced, let's not re-create the ecological disaster that was "cash 4 junkers".

And yes, they should go alongside a large reduction in total vehicles on the road using practical, fast, accessible, clean (as in maintained) electric and cheap public transit subsidized mostly by car owners and in small part by other taxes.

Let's reduce traffic and traffic violence by reducing the total number of vehicles from the road, making driver's ed more complete and stricter, and gently discouraging people in high-density, transit-friendly cities from owning personal vehicles.

We will also see the costs of road maintenance go down, unused lanes that can be reclaimed, and less asphalt to absorb heat and keep the earth from draining properly, all while keeping the remaining car traffic relatively efficient, with less idling and faster time to destination while requiring lower speeds, which EVs excel at.

Sorry, I've ranted all over this thread, but I feel very strongly about a balanced and supported approach to mass transit, car dependence reduction and picking the right usage model (car pool, car share, rental, ownership) and car size for your needs.

[-] wirebeads@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 day ago

This is about the most accurate answer I’ve read on here in a long time.

EVs and other electrified vehicles are good and all, but saving the climate comes down to building proper infrastructure not designed around cars, that gets the populace from A to B efficiently.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

I'm not exactly anti EV. If a car must exist it might as well be electric, but just converting every car into an EV is not enough. Plus there are other massive benefits to transit like increasing density and diversity in zoning, which could increase housing supply and make small businesses more versatile and resilent.

Transit is also much cheaper than car ownership which lifts low income people up by reducing their transportation costs. Its also more fair, a 14 year old, a blind person, or someone with a suspended lisence could all take transit when none of them should be driving.

[-] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Well put, cities and transportation should be designed for all ages of people and easy to get around.

All to often people forget when you get older you will loose access to a car. This leave with with limited options in how to leave your home. Similarly if you are young, you don't have access to a car and are at the whims of mom and dad driving you around.

Cars either electric or ICE are not what we should design cities around. We need transit, and cities that allow independence at all age groups.

I have seen to many older folks complaining about independence and feeling like they lost it especially when they get too old to drive.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If a car must exist it might as well be electric,

That's an important bit of nuance.

Even if every province and city were to go all-in on prioritizing public transit over new car-focused infrastructure, we are decades away from transit being available at a scale to everyone who needs it. EVs are a practical interim solution.

And there will always be practical reasons for individual vehicles (contractors, service vehicles, delivery vehicles, rural places, etc) where public transit is not realistic, and those vehicles really need to move to EV.

[-] leastaction@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

We need to be investing in electric mass transit. Powered by renewables.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Even disiel electric is much better than private automobiles we should start by building electric but any transit is better than none. We need to prioritize laying tram and train tracks. Once those are laid we can easily upgrade to electric.

Just one more highway, finished 15 years from now, will solve traffic!

[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 day ago

Sounds like someone wants to lose their sales to BYD and Europe.

[-] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago

Please provide a source for the quote beginning with, "We do not have a trade problem", and change the title to match what the Politico is (rule 1 of this instance.)

[-] lost_faith@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

Capitulation Carney :(

Don't make this a theme

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

The username checks out for the situation. We need to keep our car energy supply directly within Canada.

[-] lost_faith@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago
[-] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago

I agree, EV's aren't a complete climate solution. Do car company's or trump need more capitulation though? Haven't they gotten enough.

[-] Greyghoster@aussie.zone 9 points 1 day ago

Sounds like Asian and European EVs are the go. TACO will come through in the end.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 hours ago

Trump is looking more wrong as time goes on. Pathetic man who lose his power eventually.

this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2025
133 points (98.5% liked)

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