Going anywhere in public to socializing is expensive as hell, third places are dead, and the primary way people meet potential SOs is through apps whose purpose isn't to make anyone happy but to extract maximum value from them.

There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn't to attack them like this. That's never going to snap anyone out of it, and there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health.

I mean, the answer is that it is both. Like, not having close friends sucks. And not getting laid sucks. And both are valid and legitimate things to complain about.

Like, honestly, the "skill issue" take is super toxic. It's basically the same as telling a poor person that not being rich is a skill issue. The lack of understanding and compassion for peoples' legitimate problems will only radicalize them further.

I mean it also does mean the first thing tho no?

The problem is we live in a society pause for laugh track

Where men are told they have to get laid or their personhood is questionable and women are told they must never get laid or their personhood is questionable.

The result is that heterosexual men are frustrated, cisgender women everywhere are afraid of anything with a penis, and dating men as a transwomen is pretty fucking easy because men are tired and desperate.

Source: Am Transwoman

I'm tired of this bullshit attitude. It contributes to the very issues it diminishes. Men are allowed to have problems without being incels.

The Tumbler OP is 100% not a man, if they were they‘d know not getting laid as a man is very often not a personal skill issue. I know many young men who are conventionally attractive and emotionally mature who just kind of have lost interest in dating even though they generally want a relationship.

I totally understand that between job/school, social media biases, self-worth doubts and economic insecurities, the incentive to navigate through predatory dating apps and toxic left/right bubbles just to meet another insta reels addict is minimal.

Staying single however makes you neither bloom nor gloom, it‘s just okay. Which is something I‘ve learned not to complain about given the current state of the world. Maybe someday I‘ll reconsider…

Dumbass take.

A "skill issue" take, is just a republican "personal responsibility" take.

It's dumb as fuck. How about you examine the systems that produce outcomes? Have you learned literally nothing from the last 50 years of the social justice movement?

Sucks that men's issues are being treated as a joke or mischaracterized as something else and not important.

It has nothing to do with getting laid.

In so many words, this is just another "you're lonely because you're a bad person" misandrist jerk.

There something quite ableist about all of this.

As if everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps without the support of a community around them.

and then i learned what people meant by it (men arent getting laid)

Weird post, that literally just isn't a thing at all. This reads like a thinly veiled attempt to try to put down people they perceive as "not getting laid". This kind of "skill issue" attack rhetoric actually contributes to the male loneliness epidemic

That isn't what people mean by it. Loneliness means loneliness.

Imagine what would happen if somebody said this about women. Are you lonely, ladies? Have you tried being enjoyable and relaxing? And you should smile more!

Yeah, the OP can suck eggs on this one.

Well this is just... Wrong. The "loneliness epidemic" doesn't just have to do with getting laid. What an absurd take.

Having sex is just a part of it, because lo and behold sex is a healthy and normal part of the human biological process.

However, ask a man what it's like trying to make friends. Or if they made any new friends as of late... Or in the past 5 years. Yes, just friends, not sexual partners.

You'll find a lot of guys past the school phase and into the work/career phase haven't made any new friends. If you're a man with a career then congrats! You probably have money. But no real time to make new friends, get back in touch with old friends, or find someone to date. If you're a man with work, but not a career, you're probably broke most of the time. Too broke to go or do anything.

Even men in relationships, having families, can suffer from loneliness. Yeah, you got a wife, abd maybe a kid... but you still need friends!

An issue with this loneliness problem is that it's not taken seriously, and dismissing it as "Oh it's just a sex thing. Git gud." is exactly that. Not difficult to see how something like the so-called "manosphere" can swoop in; religions, cults, and similar find the lost, stuck, and disenfranchised easy prey.

Male loneliness is about camaraderie. If it was about getting laid, then prostitution would solve it. Busting a nut isn't gonna fix a psychological problem facing the adult male population in modern western society and this shitty tumblr post isn't gonna either. Its down right perpetuating it. Now, some truth is there; COMPANIONSHIP (not not getting laid) is a wonderful thing and does help, but the root of the problem is societal.

Wait, what? I thought it was about camaraderie as well. I mean, yeah, I wish I was getting laid but I’d honestly rather have a community of people around me who provide mutual support to each other.

I feel like this type of reply to the male loneliness epidemic (or y'know just the loneliness epidemic, since loneliness has been on the rise independent of gender) really does not give a shit about the people that experience loneliness by reducing them to the most horrible and loud of subset of them.

Sure, there are incels that will twist and turn every societal tragedy into why they are victims and deserve to keep hating women. But by listening to them and reducing the entire problem to hahaha, the women haters are getting what they deserve, you are just hurting everyone else.

I...simply don't know what to make of this. I'm a guy who finds himself thinking about the male loneliness epidemic a lot, and never in terms of finding a romantic/sexual partner. It's always about solid platonic bonds outside of that and kin, and factors that make those harder to find and maintain these days.

Is this just a shitpost and I'm too stupid to get the joke?

Is the male loneliness epidemic not generally understood to be the first thing? Also platonic female friends are actually the best, it's crazy how willing women are compared to dudes to hype you up and support you when your primary motivation for the friendship isn't sex.

It's way more than a sex issue. Getting laid is easy, if you only care about getting your dick wet. Making and keeping friends, especially meaningful friendships, is getting harder and harder. Anyone who reduces it down to "lol who cares about incels not getting laid" is being bad faith dismissive about a massive problem.

Haha! Hey, look! Men expressing feelings in comments and getting attacked by alphas and women for doing so! Next post on askmen - "Why are men so closed in and do not share their feelings?"

Maybe some are making it about getting laid, but overwhelmingly most men struggling with it have completely different reasons for why it is happening, in many cases outside of their power.

I'm lonely because my male friends turned into incredible assholes during the pandemic, became predatory creeps and started sharing videos of Andrew Tate. So I dumped them.

I miss 'hanging out with the boys' nights eating wings with beer while estiver l watching sports, or having barbecues, or playing board games or video games.

I have a LOT of lady friends now, though. But it's not the same.

I think it is funny how you post this, then in the comments deny that this is the type of opinion someone like you, a proud leftist feminist have, and that it is actually most men who think like this.

depends on your circles. in feminist and leftist circles, it usually means the first but most men outside of those circles use it just to mean “im not getting the dates i am ENTITLED to 😡"

If that is the case, why did you make this post? What was the purpose of your post if this isn't how you think about lonely men? What did you want to achieve with it? I can tell you, that you're not going achieve anything positive.

I assume you'd like to be treated with respect and compassion yourself since you have that blåhaj attached to you. That respect and compassion is a two way street.

The fact that SOME men feel entitled to women doesn't mean that most men think or feel like that. The loneliness many men (and women for that matter) feel is very real and it is a far bigger and more complex issues than just "lawl, can't get laid".

I personally know what it is like to be mistreated by very bad men. It left deep scars on me that I have to carry for life. However, I promised myself that I would not become a man hater back when I was going through my trauma. I refused to let a couple of asshole determine how I would meet the world and the men in it. It would be unfair to those who had never done a thing to me and it would be unfair to myself because I was better than that.

You too are better than this and you either have to start treat all people with respect and compassion if you want the same in return or you need to own that it is in fact not "most men" who think like this, it is you who think like this. Stand by your convictions and own them or change course because you know that what you're putting out into the world right now is ugly and reductive.

person who wrote this sounds like an insensitive asshole.

I didn't ask to have BPD. I didn't ask for inability to regulate emotions. I can only be me. I definitely cannot pretend to be relaxed or fun. That's not just me. Relaxed side of me comes out slowly.

I am not asking for every woman to date me or even go out with me. All I am asking for is a bit of empathy. But if that's too much, well. I cannot change anyone's mind.

p.s., I wish I were not born. But, that is out of my hands too.

No, it's actually the first but being shoved aside and ignored as the second.

I think it’s good to discuss our feelings. Men have socially reinforced the exact opposite amongst themselves and had it imposed on them by others. We’ve all heard “boys don’t cry, man up” etc. I worked with a young man who thought he was mad all the time. We broke through that, he was having so many emotions he didn’t know how to label because he simply wasn’t encouraged in that direction. That, I think, is incredibly lonely.

Stack on top of that growing up behind a computer screen, surrounded by manfluencers giving questionable advice, having your formative years recorded and picked apart…not being able to make those early awkward social interactions because of covid for a lot of young men as well…yeah.

Of course I think it does get conflated with a lack of intercourse or whatever. Young women are feeling abused by their lack of rights and they view what would traditionally be awkward young love/courtship as a threat. Incel ideology used to be fridge, but there are a disturbing number of young men embracing these ideas. All while women’s reproductive options are limited, making intimacy more difficult for everyone.

So there’s this historical precedent of not opening up, but boys started to learn not to do that anymore. Just in time to get shut down. It’s not girls fault, it’s not boys fault, it sucks. But I don’t see it improving until intimacy feels safe for everyone again.

This is gonna sound crazy but I've had some incredibly lonely sex where I haven't felt connected, intimate or seen by my partner.

I love posts that explicitly state that my loneliness is entirely my fault, and not an unprecedented societal issue affecting more people than ever before

try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence

Been doing that for 30 years. Is there another step?

I don't think it's just about sex. I'm not even sure incels think that. I think it's more about relationships and someone to share your life with. I know some people seem fine with just friends and casual sex, but I think a lot of people have a need, or strong "want," for a close, deep, intimate relationship. I know I do at least. Even if it was just about sex, sex is pretty much a human need.

Personally, I have severe life-long social anxiety (and depression), so it's always been very hard for me to make friends or meet potential partners. I have worked on my anxiety issue (medication, attempts at self help, though I could never afford therapy), and I am better than before (I used to sometimes get panic attacks just being around large groups of people), but it's still severe enough to hinder me in life in general (and noticeable to people around me).

Genuinely, who keeps posting shit like this on here? I keep seeing posts such as this one and it's honestly pushing me away from Lemmy. Why spend time on a platform that hates me? If being a man who didn't date (because of social anxiety, btw, not that you'd care, since clearly men are by default fascists, according to some comments here) is a sin, let us know on the front page, so that me and others like myself can avoid this place.

A lot of comments are, thankfully, calling this shitty behaviour out. But then I look at the post itself, which has 696 upvotes and 166 downvotes, and I'm like... I'm not wanted here.