OK, but...no? That's not what people are talking about with the male loneliness epidemic. They're talking about how an inability to connect with their peers on a more than superficial level, coupled with a lack of older male role models, are causing Gen Z and Millennial men to report extremely high levels of loneliness.

It's tangentially related to, "getting laid," as many of these men are driven towards misogynistic monosphere influencers who make sexual conquest a measure of self-worth, but that's a symptom of the problem, not the totality of it. Also, some people debate the existence of the loneliness epidemic altogether, but no one defines it as, "men aren't getting laid."

I feel like this type of reply to the male loneliness epidemic (or y'know just the loneliness epidemic, since loneliness has been on the rise independent of gender) really does not give a shit about the people that experience loneliness by reducing them to the most horrible and loud of subset of them.

Sure, there are incels that will twist and turn every societal tragedy into why they are victims and deserve to keep hating women. But by listening to them and reducing the entire problem to hahaha, the women haters are getting what they deserve, you are just hurting everyone else.

I think it is funny how you post this, then in the comments deny that this is the type of opinion someone like you, a proud leftist feminist have, and that it is actually most men who think like this.

depends on your circles. in feminist and leftist circles, it usually means the first but most men outside of those circles use it just to mean “im not getting the dates i am ENTITLED to 😡"

If that is the case, why did you make this post? What was the purpose of your post if this isn't how you think about lonely men? What did you want to achieve with it? I can tell you, that you're not going achieve anything positive.

I assume you'd like to be treated with respect and compassion yourself since you have that blåhaj attached to you. That respect and compassion is a two way street.

The fact that SOME men feel entitled to women doesn't mean that most men think or feel like that. The loneliness many men (and women for that matter) feel is very real and it is a far bigger and more complex issues than just "lawl, can't get laid".

I personally know what it is like to be mistreated by very bad men. It left deep scars on me that I have to carry for life. However, I promised myself that I would not become a man hater back when I was going through my trauma. I refused to let a couple of asshole determine how I would meet the world and the men in it. It would be unfair to those who had never done a thing to me and it would be unfair to myself because I was better than that.

You too are better than this and you either have to start treat all people with respect and compassion if you want the same in return or you need to own that it is in fact not "most men" who think like this, it is you who think like this. Stand by your convictions and own them or change course because you know that what you're putting out into the world right now is ugly and reductive.

Haha! Hey, look! Men expressing feelings in comments and getting attacked by alphas and women for doing so! Next post on askmen - "Why are men so closed in and do not share their feelings?"

Maybe some are making it about getting laid, but overwhelmingly most men struggling with it have completely different reasons for why it is happening, in many cases outside of their power.

That isn't what people mean by it. Loneliness means loneliness.

Imagine what would happen if somebody said this about women. Are you lonely, ladies? Have you tried being enjoyable and relaxing? And you should smile more!

I am in a relationship, but also lonely. I would like someone to share relationship-problems with for when they occur every once in a while. But it's hard.

Don't believe all the crap you see on TikTok and talk to actual people about their problems. Please.

no, make loneliness epidemic is exactly what's described in the first post. societal norms mostly hinder men from forming meaningful friendships with other men, and women as well. they're discouraged from expressing feelings (maybe other than aggressive ones) and being vulnerable. i don't know how you can form any relationships without doing either. and turns out you really can't. hence a lot of men feel lonely.

Well this is just... Wrong. The "loneliness epidemic" doesn't just have to do with getting laid. What an absurd take.

Having sex is just a part of it, because lo and behold sex is a healthy and normal part of the human biological process.

However, ask a man what it's like trying to make friends. Or if they made any new friends as of late... Or in the past 5 years. Yes, just friends, not sexual partners.

You'll find a lot of guys past the school phase and into the work/career phase haven't made any new friends. If you're a man with a career then congrats! You probably have money. But no real time to make new friends, get back in touch with old friends, or find someone to date. If you're a man with work, but not a career, you're probably broke most of the time. Too broke to go or do anything.

Even men in relationships, having families, can suffer from loneliness. Yeah, you got a wife, abd maybe a kid... but you still need friends!

An issue with this loneliness problem is that it's not taken seriously, and dismissing it as "Oh it's just a sex thing. Git gud." is exactly that. Not difficult to see how something like the so-called "manosphere" can swoop in; religions, cults, and similar find the lost, stuck, and disenfranchised easy prey.

Semi related but it's actually so irritating how I have to go through life where my value as a human being is decided by how much money I make, how many girls I get, how successful I am when I could not care less about any of that, but I will get judged severely for it if anyone "finds out" that I'm not successful in... things I don't care about...

Like why is that my value to people? I don't want to have kids with you, you don't have to live my life, if it's fun and rewarding being around me why is that not enough? It seeps in even to progressive speech where people will say "clearly he gets no women" like that decides their value as a person. Very cringe. Also don't forget to downvote for minimizing male loneliness as men can't get women for the 9999th time.

I...simply don't know what to make of this. I'm a guy who finds himself thinking about the male loneliness epidemic a lot, and never in terms of finding a romantic/sexual partner. It's always about solid platonic bonds outside of that and kin, and factors that make those harder to find and maintain these days.

Is this just a shitpost and I'm too stupid to get the joke?

Funny. I always thought it was a camaraderie thing because I'm married. That definitely makes a lot of sense though because young men are becoming more right-wing and most women do not like that so it seems like that would be a big hurdle and maybe they just need to figure their shit out.

Going anywhere in public to socializing is expensive as hell, third places are dead, and the primary way people meet potential SOs is through apps whose purpose isn't to make anyone happy but to extract maximum value from them.

There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn't to attack them like this. That's never going to snap anyone out of it, and there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health.

No, it's actually the first but being shoved aside and ignored as the second.

Sucks that men's issues are being treated as a joke or mischaracterized as something else and not important.

I don't think it's just about sex. I'm not even sure incels think that. I think it's more about relationships and someone to share your life with. I know some people seem fine with just friends and casual sex, but I think a lot of people have a need, or strong "want," for a close, deep, intimate relationship. I know I do at least. Even if it was just about sex, sex is pretty much a human need.

Personally, I have severe life-long social anxiety (and depression), so it's always been very hard for me to make friends or meet potential partners. I have worked on my anxiety issue (medication, attempts at self help, though I could never afford therapy), and I am better than before (I used to sometimes get panic attacks just being around large groups of people), but it's still severe enough to hinder me in life in general (and noticeable to people around me).

It's way more than a sex issue. Getting laid is easy, if you only care about getting your dick wet. Making and keeping friends, especially meaningful friendships, is getting harder and harder. Anyone who reduces it down to "lol who cares about incels not getting laid" is being bad faith dismissive about a massive problem.

I'm tired of this bullshit attitude. It contributes to the very issues it diminishes. Men are allowed to have problems without being incels.

Male loneliness is about camaraderie. If it was about getting laid, then prostitution would solve it. Busting a nut isn't gonna fix a psychological problem facing the adult male population in modern western society and this shitty tumblr post isn't gonna either. Its down right perpetuating it. Now, some truth is there; COMPANIONSHIP (not not getting laid) is a wonderful thing and does help, but the root of the problem is societal.

I mean, the answer is that it is both. Like, not having close friends sucks. And not getting laid sucks. And both are valid and legitimate things to complain about.

Like, honestly, the "skill issue" take is super toxic. It's basically the same as telling a poor person that not being rich is a skill issue. The lack of understanding and compassion for peoples' legitimate problems will only radicalize them further.

is it ok if i don't judge my sense of manhood by the "getting laid" part ?

i'm not into judging womanhood by using male anything, and i don't see why the other way makes any more sense.

I love posts that explicitly state that my loneliness is entirely my fault, and not an unprecedented societal issue affecting more people than ever before

try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence

Been doing that for 30 years. Is there another step?

The problem is we live in a society pause for laugh track

Where men are told they have to get laid or their personhood is questionable and women are told they must never get laid or their personhood is questionable.

The result is that heterosexual men are frustrated, cisgender women everywhere are afraid of anything with a penis, and dating men as a transwomen is pretty fucking easy because men are tired and desperate.

Source: Am Transwoman

I have a wife and I don't feel lonely.

But I noticed my third place "go to" places are very lonely and they were a place I use to be to socialise randomly.

Backthen: Going to the gym was an adventure, blast some weights and grab a cappucino with someone on the way out and talk about the routine, how they are progressing etc... PEOPLE TALKED.

Now? Everyone on the phones during sets, if they aren't doing that they run around with headphones and walk and use the phone,..

It's everywhere. I am not different now.

But trust me guys and ladies, it's not having no partner. It's the phones, it's the phones. If they'd shutdown the internet people won't be dating anymore and the human race would just end cause people can't communicate in person anymore.

The Tumbler OP is 100% not a man, if they were they‘d know not getting laid as a man is very often not a personal skill issue. I know many young men who are conventionally attractive and emotionally mature who just kind of have lost interest in dating even though they generally want a relationship.

I totally understand that between job/school, social media biases, self-worth doubts and economic insecurities, the incentive to navigate through predatory dating apps and toxic left/right bubbles just to meet another insta reels addict is minimal.

Staying single however makes you neither bloom nor gloom, it‘s just okay. Which is something I‘ve learned not to complain about given the current state of the world. Maybe someday I‘ll reconsider…

Genuinely, who keeps posting shit like this on here? I keep seeing posts such as this one and it's honestly pushing me away from Lemmy. Why spend time on a platform that hates me? If being a man who didn't date (because of social anxiety, btw, not that you'd care, since clearly men are by default fascists, according to some comments here) is a sin, let us know on the front page, so that me and others like myself can avoid this place.

A lot of comments are, thankfully, calling this shitty behaviour out. But then I look at the post itself, which has 696 upvotes and 166 downvotes, and I'm like... I'm not wanted here.

I mean it also does mean the first thing tho no?

I'm with the second guy. I'm not going to doom scroll through useless dating apps and talking to every woman on the street. I'd rather do my own hobbies and do my own things so worst case scenario, I'm happy with what I'm doing, best case scenario I get a SO, or reasonable scenario is I make some friends.

It has nothing to do with getting laid.

person who wrote this sounds like an insensitive asshole.

Dumbass take.

A "skill issue" take, is just a republican "personal responsibility" take.

It's dumb as fuck. How about you examine the systems that produce outcomes? Have you learned literally nothing from the last 50 years of the social justice movement?

In so many words, this is just another "you're lonely because you're a bad person" misandrist jerk.