Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth?
Ooh, Yavin is a place on Earth
They say in Yavin, love comes first
We'll make Yavin a place on Earth
This song is about Communism and my mind won't be changed.
Fuck! I clicked specifically to make this exact comment!
Of course like every comment on that post is "just go to Guatemala" as if the point of the post is not "damn I wish there was a safe haven for leftists dedicated to destroying all that presently exists where we can chill and plan a massive rebellion that makes the world a better place" and is instead "wow I wish I could go somewhere with a rain forest."
Exactly......that's why you go to Nicaragua
Also do we not have a Sandino with glowing eyes or FSLN emote? Only Ortega, which is cool dont get me wrong
I too long for my enemies in the local org to get torn apart by giant animals while I fly away laughing.
It's just a staging ground for offensive operations that you swiftly abandon when you've done the attacks. For all the themes the libs absorb they'll still miss em, the 'Rebellion' is the people--not where they are. Echo Base wasn't on Yavin 4
What I'm getting from this thread is that Yavin is Cuba.
The rebellion were libs who wanted to restore the same system that fell to the empire in the first place (as well as fucking up Andor's life as a kid) and by the end is led by the senators who bailed to Yavin at the last minute they could. Like, sure give em amnesty and maybe some kinda position but I dont get how they're leading the outfit within a year of being rescued. Being senators probably doesn't translate to military strategy all that well and these are the people that worked within the imperial system until it was a threat to their lives to keep doing so, they can clean some ships or whatever.
This is a disconnect between Andor and other Disney properties. In Rebels we find out Bail Organa has been funding and coordinating his own rebel outfit for essentially the entire reign of the Empire. Andor presents him and Mothma as naive, idealistic politicians and that's okay because it feels more realistic. However it conflicts with Disney's lore.
Rebels lore is almost all ignored for Andor, which is okay because it's a silly cartoon. But Luthen has a lot of overlap with Fulcrum from Rebels (even a similar codename), who Bail worked closely with.
In Rebels we find out Bail Organa has been funding and coordinating his own rebel outfit for essentially the entire reign of the Empire
I really don't think this is incongruous, Bail and Mon just don't tell each other what they're doing. why would they? the fact that Alderan is funding and supporting the rebellion is literally in Star Wars 1.
also andor has a line referencing the rebels version of rescuing mon mothma in the actual show, as i understand it
I love that in Princess of Alderaan, set well before Andor, we have Bail upset that Saw's assassination of the Moff of Naboo nearly killed Leia, and his wife Breha is like "don't be a bitch, Saw is doing good work, we put weapons out there to be used, we don't get to pick who the collateral is"
also andor has a line referencing the rebels version of rescuing mon mothma in the actual show, as i understand it
Yes that was another awkward overlap between Rebels and Andor. They both have a plot of rescuing Mothma and she does a big speech. It felt odd in Andor when they said "she's doing another speech" off screen till I remembered.
And I was saying the way Andor presented Bail was as somewhat naive, with his own team being compromised by the ISB. I don't think it's a major flaw in the show, it's okay for different creators to have different artistic interpretations.
Her assistant guy is from the Rebels episode as well. I am so glad I forgot that, cause I was unsure the entire time if he was a traitor or would get got. Knowing he would be on the Ghost 24 hours later would've made it less fun
I'll take your word for it. No way im gonna watch that stuff
The New Republic is basically West Germany/Reconstruction USA, but Adenauer actually tried to send aid to the red front instead of crying about muh Catholicism and then collaborating with the nazis. Like its a fantastic example of libs subverting and diluting revolutionary organizations (mainly due to doylist reasons because communism doesnt exist in Star Wars - fascism does (strange)- the most left political figure is like Padme who is a welfare monarchy lib)
Glad someone remembers that fact about the NR. A lot of even defenders of new canon stuff and people who are into lore seem to forget that the NR was sanctioning (as in supporting, not putting sanctions against) the Resistance on the down low. Like Resistance opens with NR pilots delivering info from the NR to a drop for the Resistance.
I didn't know anyone watched Resistance.
I stand by Resistance through and through. It is way more childish than Rebels, but I honestly enjoyed it the most out of all the animated shows.
They are not the ones leading the military aspect. Raddus is, Dodonna is, Draven is, but not Mon, Bail, or Jebbel. Raddus is Mon Cala navy, Dodonna is former Republic and then Empire who defected early, and Draven was Republic intelligence who seemingly quit when the Empire formed.
It is not a good structure, and I really wish competing interests among the Alliance leadership was actually talked about in the show. Not just individual planets and their resistances having their own personal fights, but like, fundamental questions about what their state is even going to be once they have unified.
The show spends so much time on the dress rehearsal and the importance of that, but it not only does not cover, but trivializes the importance of WHAT action you take at the end of the day.
I dont know who anyone you just mentioned is aside from Mon and Bail. I guess having the question already answered by the sequels as to what kind of government would come out of it as well as the fact that it's made by libs for Disney and fighting fascism is only permitted in defense of liberalism cause then its just the western side of ww2 which has become a cartoon partially cause of star wars
Draven is the intelligence guy we see Cassian talk to repeatedly. The one calling the shots for pretty much all the stuff we get on Yavin in the show. Raddus is the fish guy, shows up briefly in the show probably in part due to time and also money. Dodonna is from the Original film, rogue one, etc. Old guy with beard on yavin, not in the show but mentioned a couple times by Bail and Mon.
And yeah the sequels sorta doomed a LOT of story potential. JJ wanting to wipe the slate clean lessened the stakes and investment in any stories in that 30 year gap, all so he could essentially say the conflict he had set up was also not important and can be brushed aside.
WW2 from the western allies POV is a cartoon in popular perception, for sure. Star Wars built off of WW2 movies, themselves not particularly interested in what the war was about. Not that Star Wars lacks depth, or that a cartoony depiction is always bad, especially for allegory, but you end up hitting a limit at a certain point.
My point was more that the Rebellion is not really shown to be run by the senator characters, those are just the characters we follow outside of the spy angle. The show truncated what was otherwise multiple seasons, and as a result the second season does suffer a bit. I think the biggest failing of not having more time is honestly never getting to see a larger scale military operation. Not a big successful battle, but just something the Rebels do that is destructive and clear to the public in their method.
We see all kinda of wonderful admitances that violence is necessary but always as survival or to keep the existence of the Rebellion secret. The Rebellion itself, that beating heart of it on Yavin is not really shown to inflict violence in the show. Now it IS in Rogue One. Jyn's dad and those other scientists get blown up in the crossfire of a bombing run and we get Jyn saying something along the lines of "those are Rebel torpedoes that killed my father" which is when we got the line Andor is spun from "suddenly the Rebellion is real for you, some of us live it every day. I have been in this fight since I was six years old"
But for all the allusions to Battle of Algiers, we never really get to see the Rebels, not completely against the wall, not in a clean strike, blow something up and make it clear it was them. Idk I wanted to see the show acknowledge that it is not just the people who build these kinds of organizations, but the organizations themselves that do the terrible or bloody acts that result in liberation.
.......ok I guess I am asking for them to do something with the morality of Brecht's "The Decision" which in his words literally cannot make sense in the framework of any text that is not explicitly Marxist
I gotta work with what's on screen here
Draven is on screen, he is a speaking role, as is Raddus. We hear Mon and Bail talking about having to confer with Raddus in a context that iirc outright mentions he is with the fleet. The Alliance is not really shown to be completely run by the senators, though yes they are the main figures we get full conversations/arguments with. I am just saying, these other elements are literally on screen and spoken aloud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3GGIQrOdA
Raddus is shown to be in a position of power, he gets the line that they don't have a quorum which confirms more leaders not there, then the line "Dodonna and Merrick(who a prior line tells the audience is a military hardass who would've shot Cassian out of the sky) will be back tomorrow" and only THEN can a full session occur.
So the show does, textually come out and say that the senators don't have power over these matters, and that approval, while given off-screen, comes AFTER these military figures are back involved. Mon and Bail are focused on cause we had time to know them already, but the show does not make them singularly important to Alliance leadership.
Whatever else is wrong with the Alliance politically, it is not being run as a fighting force by comfortable politicians, the show makes that explicit.
Well, I wasn't paying much attention then
I pay too much attention. I swear I have kicked my star wars hyperfixation, it just lingers a bit
I am a bad name rememberer and will usually refer to characters as 'their role or a physical trait-guy'.
Draven is "scowl guy"
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I think the biggest failing of not having more time is honestly never getting to see a larger scale military operation. Not a big successful battle, but just something the Rebels do that is destructive and clear to the public in their method.
This is a result of Disney canon. The Battle of Scarif is the first successful operation of the Rebel Alliance and the Death Star is basically their first public event. Old canon had a 5 year period of small scale war before Yavin, but Disney basically made it the start of the Galactic Civil War.
I think Disney canon was sticking closer to the opening crawl all things considered. it does say Rebels got their "first victory". In legends you had full scale battles and even victories like Kamino well before Toprawa (Legends equivalent to Scarif), canon plays it a bit safer, but there is still a civil war ongoing. Rebels even skirts this with the Alliance not "technically" being behind the liberation of Lothal which is pretty resoundingly a victory.
In Disney canon was have dozens of battles and operations prior to Scarif, Andor was not beholden by Disney canon to not have an Alliance military operation happen in the show. One did not happen because the show was shortened to one arc instead of one season for each year. Plus with what I was suggesting, it does not even have to be a win. Saw did several hits on the Empire, 2 in Rebel Rising, which saw serious violence and collateral damage/massacres. As well as the much cleaner though ultimately only temporarily victorious taking of a facility on Kashyyyk in Jedi Fallen Order.
In canon the time frame is essentially the same as legends, just the scale of results is different. The Alliance is declared 5 BBY, and the civil war begins in earnest 4 BBY. Saw and the Rebels crew even blew up a Star Destroyer in what amounted to a strategic loss for the Rebels, but still a huge number of dead Imperials. That is the kind of operation I am talking about.
honestly i think that bit in rogue one where half the 'rebellion', invited to and participating in an insurgent encampment, was shocked at the suggestion of open hostilities really funny
if Cory Booker ever made it to the headquarters 2 years into the civil war he would literally be like that
anyway "it not only does not cover, but trivializes the importance of WHAT action you take at the end of the day." so you need to watch a film called Star Wars from 1977 for this bit, actually.
spoiler
I stand by that joke but I do agree that republican politics are woefully underdeveloped on the star war setting.
instead Earth has Curtis Yarvin
There already is, several in fact. You just have to trek to some pretty isolated places in the third world.
yeah but in star wars you don't have to walk there
Parts of Mindanao will have that vibe both aesthetically and politically.
I thought the IS had a branch there?
Apparently yes. Also the Moro are in Mindanao and one of the IS factions broke from them.
it's called china
Yeah China is great and all, but Yavin 4 is a world where every person there is deeply committed to rebellion, having left their entire life and almost everyone they know behind to make that dream happen. China is... a normal country where if you expressed such views to like a random person on the street they'd look at you like you need intense therapy or something. Not at all the same thing.
So like China except ur not late to the party.
no yavin 4 is china
yavin 4 but the people in charge are like, hey, we need to maintain our trade with space-israel and the empire, we shouldn't intervene in local politics in any way
space-israel
toydaria?
I always thought that would be space greece, but I can see space israel. Aaaand that's my headcanon now.
as an ashkenazi my default state is watto-coded
i thought the same thing but tbh it isn't because China isn't willing to harbor and support international revolutionary movements and groups
neither was yavin 4
Akshually its North Korea
A Reddit link was detected in your post. Here are links to the same location on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.
Rules for Movies & TV Discussion
Any discussion of Disney properties should contain a (cw: imperialism) tag. If your post isn't tagged appropriately it will be removed.
Anti-Bong Joon-ho trolling will result in an immediate ban from c/movies and submitted to the site administrators for review.
On Star Trek Sunday only posts discussing how we might achieve space communism are permitted. Non-Star Trek related content will be removed and you will be temporarily banned until the following Sunday.
Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.