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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by autonomoususer@lemmy.world to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

I really don’t get why so many people are turning this into a privacy versus anonymity debate when the real problem is censorship.

Yes, Signal needs a phone number to sign up, but replacing that with an email or username doesn’t make it anonymous. The real issue is that governments are blocking the registration SMS, so people can’t even sign up for the app in the first place.

Sure, there are workarounds, but most people aren’t going to jump through all those extra hoops just to use an app. If we want to spread privacy, how do we do that when Signal's phone number requirement is actively working against us?

Instead of arguing over privacy versus anonymity, shouldn’t we focus on making sure everyone can access Signal without issues? What do you think?

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[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 6 points 19 hours ago

Different people have different wants and needs.

Your real problem might be censorship.

But your uncensored messages are going to other people who might have a problem that's not censorship. When you sent that message to your uncle last week about all the horrible things done around the world, and he gets stopped at the border to another country, and they used a certain unlocking software provided by another country with a really big intelligence service. Now his ass is waiting in lock up for agreeing with you on a message. His problem isn't censorship.

There are lots of ways to avoid censorship. There are very few to remain anonymous while you're doing it.

[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 0 points 14 hours ago

Everytime Signal fanboys hype Signal up, it reminds me of this XKCD: https://xkcd.com/538/

also: https://lemmy.ml/post/35962253/21003480

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 12 points 1 day ago

Where are you seeing gov blocking SMS?

[-] iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world 7 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

How about this - in order to get a sim card to receive that SMS in most EU countries, you need first to provide your ID to the goverment. Also applies for many other countries with less rights. Some of which might become suspicious if it's a second separate SIM to your normal use one. So yeah, so much for anonymity.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 8 points 23 hours ago
  1. That didn't answer my question
  2. Doesn't matter what country you're in. You don't need a SIM. All you need is a number, which you can get from a variety of places like MySudo or jmp.chat
  3. No one said Signal provided anonymity.
[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

2 and 3 are the whole point of the original post.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org -3 points 19 hours ago
[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 points 11 hours ago

Sure, there are workarounds, but most people aren’t going to jump through all those extra hoops just to use an app.

[-] shades@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 19 hours ago

you need first to provide your ID to the goverment.

Doesn't need to be a government issued ID iirc, also doesn't have to be issued by the country you are trying to purchase it in.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world -1 points 20 hours ago
[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 0 points 19 hours ago

There's any number of reasons for SMS not to be sent. I've had this problem on various platforms as well.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 0 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

The real issue is that people can't register for Signal due to blocked SMS. Arguing privacy vs. anonymity is pointless when access is the problem.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 18 hours ago

These are 2 unrelated conversations. If you want to have either one of them, we can do that, but you can't use one to argue the other. You can't argue that you can't sign up for Signal because the service isn't private. That's simply inaccurate.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 0 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

This is never written anywhere in that comment. Is it too hard to read? Which part is confusing?

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

You haven't provided any evidence that it's "blocked" or that there is any "denial of service". As far as I can tell, the user has network issues.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Why are all the 'network issues' always effecting phone numbers starting with the same country code?

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 18 hours ago
[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Get a number like theirs and try it yourself.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 0 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Okay so you don't have any evidence.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

You were given the evidence. It's clear you don't want it. A VoIP number does not solve this as the original post already explains.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 16 hours ago

You haven't provided any evidence. Only an anecdote.

[-] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 day ago

Anonymity is part of fighting censorship. State actors will try to undermine that.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

shouldn’t we focus on making sure everyone can access Signal without issues?

I'd rather ppl not use US-based centralized services, hosted on amazon's servers, and subject to national security letters.

There are far better self-hostable alternatives that aren't hosted in burgerland.

[-] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

I know of matrix, what are some other alternatives?

Also a protocol that got falsely maligned during the crypto days was secure scuttlebutt, and people should be talking about it more.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Matrix, SimpleX, Briar(not a huge fan of this one since its android only), XMPP (only if you have encryption addon).

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago
[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 2 points 19 hours ago

They went a whole year without publishing updates to repo a few years back, until there was a big community backlash over it. Also you have no guarantee that's what they're running other than: "just trust us".

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world -2 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

What is this nonsense? Libre software has never meant we control other people's servers.

[-] monovergent@lemmy.ml 3 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I credit a good part of my success bringing friends and family over to Signal to the fact that it emulates what ordinary people are used to: a centralized service where people's identities are associated with phone numbers. No need to teach them anything new, just download it, punch in your number, and then punch in my number. I think Signal is targeting exactly that and putting more anonymous and decentralized models way on the back burner. Concepts as simple to us as 'instances' are surprisingly difficult to explain to newcomers, and I wouldn't be surprised if accounts not associated with phone numbers pose a discoverability issue.

This all might be sidestepping the question a bit since I haven't dug deep into the issue, but my thinking is that Signal, in its current state, should be seen as a transitional solution until things like SimpleX become more mature and widespread.

[-] commander@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

it's been asked a lot and I've seen others respond about how the passcode and account username that were added in the last few years are steps in the process to make accounts not dependent on phone numbers. I've just given them the benefit of the doubt that someday we won't be tied to a phone number anymore

[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml -2 points 14 hours ago

Signal is like TSA: it's security theater. Any entity serious about security will not do these things that Signal is doing:

  • Hostility to non-Google appstores
  • Using phone numbers and SMS for signup
  • US-based entitity controlling the ecosystem
[-] icelimit@lemmy.ml 1 points 14 hours ago

So what messaging platform is actually serious about security per the points you have described?

[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml -1 points 14 hours ago

SimpleX is promising, but seems very new.

Telegram is better than Signal on many angles, but has other problems.

I don't think there is a perfect app yet. But Signal's aggressive marketing is security-theater, not real security.

[-] Sailor88@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

We should be working to get more people to use XMPP rather than signal, Whatsapp, etc.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Yes but Signal is libre. If you're already failing, stop making it harder. Getting others to care first, then go for decentralisation.

this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2025
45 points (84.6% liked)

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