The more people who demand better out of their employers (and services, governments, etc.), the better we'll get of those things in the long run. When you surrender your rights, you worsen not only your own situation, but that of everyone else, as you validate and contribute to the system that violates them. Capitulation is the single greatest reason we have these kinds of problems.

We need more people doing exactly as you did, simply saying no. Thank you for fighting, and thank you for sharing. Best wishes in your job hunt.

top part of monitor: "genuine" windows qube in HVM -->sys-residentialproxy ---> sys-vpn ----> sys-net

bottom part of monitor: tor browser chatting w/ ai ----->sys-whonix--------------> sys-vpn ----> sys-net

but it's easier said than done, and more than that, it's fucking infuriating having to do any of this shit.

i fucked up an interview because it took me an extra 30 minutes to find out chromium wouldn't work, firefox wouldn't work, and only plain vanilla chrome would work. you're not the only one who has been fucked by this. the interview platform demanded chrome but won't tell you; you have to trial and error find out. corporations want grateful docile slaves. it's time consuming to figure out what normie bullshit each asshole corp wants.

it's really fucked. when i use privacy preserving techniques, often company anti-fraud systems flag me as "fraud." but if i actually use "white hat" tactics that "ethical pen testers" use, suddenly i'm allowed to have privacy and use my own system and they think i'm a normie.

sometimes i don't even care any more and use systems that obviously seem like fraud, because it's just me and not fraud and i hate them, and then if they think it's fraud who gives a fuck. if they flag me as fraud, i'll go with another company. none of their shit stops anyone good and these anti-privacy companies get a false sense of security from all the "amazing" cloudflare blocking and anti-fraud protection... they are getting charged blocking real users and then one day someone brutal and sophisticated comes, someone not like me who doesn't know shit, and just destroys their servers.

I am also a software developer. The interview process in our industry has become increasingly offensive over the last 30 years. That started out with high-prestige companies who provided exceptional pay and benefits. Some people were willing to put up with that, so they mostly got away with it. Now most companies assume they have all the power and can demand whatever they want from applicants.

Refusing to participate is perfectly legitimate. It may keep you from finding a job, at least in this industry, but that may be better than giving up your self-respect for basic survival. And there are still decent software companies to work for, although they are hard to find. Changing careers is also a viable option.

Our overall economy is so broken in favor of the super rich and their corporations that individuals really do have very little power. Organized actions, of various types, give us some counter-leverage. Collective bargaining, strikes, and political efforts to push for better regulations all have the potential to improve things, at least in the middle- to long-term.

We all need to keep the big picture in mind while we do what we need to get by individually.

Playing devil's advocate: The reason companies feel the need to put these systems in place is most likely because many candidates cheat using chatbots.

In my company, until very recently, engineers were running the first and second stages of interviews (right after CV vetting) and I've heard many times in the last couple of years that my colleagues suspected candidates of using LLMs. There would be unnatural pauses, typing after every asked question etc.

Granted, I don't think any have slipped through to being hired, as it's still pretty obvious, but I can understand why companies may want to put safeguards in place.

Are they going too far here? Absolutely.

For us, we actually sit with the candidate in a pair-programming kind of setup to gauge their vibes, way of thinking and confidence as they solve coding problems that closely match what they would do on the job. That usually eliminates "seniors" that haven't coded for 5 years or that got there by nepotism or sheer passage of time.

IMHO, the response is a bit wordy, but I agree with where you're coming from. You should consider trying to work for yourself, it may be very rewarding for you.

You were overqualified for the position if they're making you go through that amount of bullshit.

I remember declining a job offer (I had the contract to sign) long ago because one of the people I'd nominated as a reference contacted me and said "I legally can't answer the questions they've asked about you". Turns out their pro-forma reference questionnaire asked things like "Is this person punctual?", "what issues has this person had?". General dirt digging

If anybody were to answer that and the job offer got revoked, I could take that person to court for libel. Companies should know better than to ask anything but factual details in a reference.

So I turned it down stating that if they were so unprofessional around recruitment I wouldn't trust them to be a good professional employer if I worked for them.

Congrats for respecting yourself. Fuck those dystopic interview process.

100% supporting OP.

Good on you. Very well said.

I can’t even bother trying to connect to Teams or Zoom or any coding test with my desktop. I’m lucky I have a Mac lying around and use safari when needed.

That is absurdly fucked up on the recruiter's part. Your response was a good one.

I think not pursuing a position (or doing a lot of other things) due to your own values is always the right choice assuming no one else's health and well-being is on the line. In this case I distinctly support your decision (I mean if anyone would it's the people on Lemmy). I cannot stand that in every situation where an individual has even the slightest amount of desperation, like needing income to feed you and your family, a company will always, without fail, take advantage of it to save themselves the slightest bit of money. I'm not even inherently against the idea of digital pre-screening type processes like this assessment, but because the job seeker is usually in need of income, they will jump through these ridiculous hoops to make it work and companies know it so they put no effort into making it an easy process.

These are real human beings who, if they ever need to find a job again, will have to go through these SAME things and no one (with the power to do so) ever stops and thinks.. man this sucks.. we should make this easier.

I was unemployed for a year before I went back to hospitality, before this I'd worked 5 years within a state government

Look after yourself mate, it's rough

This process pretty much summarizes why I'm scared to try changing companies lately. Presumably these measures are to make sure you're not cheating with AI, but then if you get the job they expect you to use AI.

I like in-person interviews most, they totally resolve the trust concerns. And to other engineers interviewing you using fewer MS products is typically viewed as a good thing. But getting to the in-person part is difficult in this market even if you're willing to put up with all their spyware from what I hear.

I had similar experiences with gaining employment. It was actually the first time I ever applied for a job at 38 y/o. It was horrendous.

As you said, it's a horrific choice to either volunteer all of your information to 3rd party companies that don't respect you, or remain unemployed. I didn't apply for a tech job BTW so unfortunately changing careers will not help.

I did however get a CompTIA cert omfor funsies. They are very invasive as well, but they also partner with a local testing company. I'm very happy to let them run whatever software they want on their computers, and your potential employer should consider the same.

But the unfortunate reality is they won't, and they don't care. You are 1 of 49303726 applicants who will do whatever they're asked to do because they're desperate. So good luck.

I strongly relate to your experience, I am currently employed and basically doing my old job + learning devops/coding for our internal site.

I too have set up my own home NAS (proxmox with two computers running as nodes) with LXCs and a VM for HA. Have moved out of the cloud as much as possible and trying to cut ties to the major corporations wanting to profit off our data.

I am a leftist, nearly Marxist and work at a fucking financial institution that I hate because I have to make an income to help support us.

I wish so much I could work somewhere that aligned with my values, and want to quit so badly but I can't leave us without my income for long and the job market sucks and it feels like learning coding/dev ops is a waste of time because of LLMs even though the evidence that they're able to do the things claimed is non-existent (they're helpful for sure but companies are seriously massively over-inflating their current capabilities and making stupid decisions because of it).

I want off this corporate bullshit ride.

Yeah, I've had this type of interview lately. Not for software though. You install what probably might as well be a rootkit on your machine. They monitor your eyes through webcam. The slightest detection of your eyes looking away is an instant fail. That's the gist of the process now.

Unfortunately for most people, they aren't technical enough to know what they're getting themselves into. They just follow the instructions.

Nobody is going to read the mountains of terms and conditions of all the services required to jump through along the application process. People are just trying to get a job to they can eat tonight.