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What we have called “motorcycles” should actually be called “enginecycles”. Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.

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[-] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 15 points 3 months ago

Upvote for the main thought, but

  1. A gasoline engine is a type of motor. You are making a distinction without a difference. A motor is just something that produces mechanical motion. Motor. Motion. Motivate. All come from the same root as “move”
  2. An “engine” can be the whole apparatus that does the work, not merely the thing that provides the power, and could be powered by a water, beast, or even manually such as the cotton [en]gin[e]. A lot of that usage comes from pre WW2, but it survives in things like “train engine” (the vehicle that pushes or pulls a train) and “game engine” (the program architecture that manages the processing power provided by the computer to convert user interactions, game assets, etc. into something that we recognize as a game).
  3. It’s not a four-cycle engine. It is a four-stroke engine: each piston makes four strokes each complete engine cycle.
[-] funkajunk@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Wow, you absolutely destroyed that kid

[-] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 1 points 3 months ago

I… I…

sometimes I underestimate the power of my own pedantry…

[-] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 months ago

To your point, "engine" at one time referred specifically to an electrically driven device, and "motor" referred to something combustion driven.

Etymologically, engine means "mechanical device" and motor originates in Latin meaning "mover".

I do agree with OP that a 2 wheel contrivance with any kind of motor/engine is a motorcycle (motorized cycle) from a regulatory perspective, though I'd never call one a motorcycle.

[-] Michal@programming.dev 9 points 3 months ago

Enginecycles? If you specifically refer to internal combustion engine (ICE) then it'd make sense to call them icecycles. It sounds weird, maybe icicles?

But seriously EU has a definition of what an ebike is, it's not just a bicycle with motor, there's max allowed power, max assistance level, and importantly it should only assist when pedalling. Anything beyond that, yes, is classified as a motorbike.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 8 points 3 months ago

I'm a bit triggered by this, so let me apologize in advance for the incoming rant.

You might be kind of right etymologically, but bikes, e-bikes, motorcycles, and likely in the near future e-motos, are specific things defined by law. The confusion between these vehicle classes is causing harm.

An e-bike is a pedal powered bicycle with an electric motor that assists the rider while pedalling up to 25km/h. You might be able to switch modes between more assistance and less assistance but there is no throttle.

If you purchase a cheap walmart / k-mart bike, swap the rear wheel with a powered hub from alibaba and strap on a battery from temu, that's not an e-bike. They have a throttle and no limiter and in most cases can propel a 12 year old idiot at 50km/h but some times more than 70km/h. This is not an e-bike and more accurately described as an unregulated electric motorbike.

The frame isn't built for this kind of stress, and the riders often have no capacity to understand the danger they're imposing on themselves and others - zipping past kids playing and so on.

It's an emerging disaster in Australia and I imagine other places as well. It's turning the population against e-bikes when they're not the problem.

We urgently need more appropriate legislation drafted to clearly define the classes of vehicle, and we need police with the right skills and equipment to enforce those laws.

[-] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 4 points 3 months ago

Your definition is just yours - I see ebikes doing 35mph+ on the sidewalk all the time.

How do I know they're going that fast? Because that's how fast I'm going on the street, and I'm not passing them.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 2 points 3 months ago

Sorry you may not have understood me correctly.

In Australia and most other jurisdictions an "e-bike" is defined by law as a bike with pedal assist up to 25km/h.

If a bike has an electric motor which is propelling it faster than that, then it is by definition not an e-bike. It's most likely an unregulated electric motorbike, or e-moto. They're incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.

[-] Beacon@fedia.io 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah the entire nomenclature does a terrible job of differentiating what really matters in vehicle type as a law regulation category. As far as i can see the main factors should be:

  1. Number of wheels
  2. Size dimensions
  3. Weight
  4. Top speed
[-] Almacca@aussie.zone 2 points 3 months ago

This is the correct take.

My feeling is that if it's controlled by a throttle, then it's a motorbike and it should be registered and require a driver's licence to operate, and it shouldn't be on bike paths or footpaths.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 5 points 3 months ago

Yeah that's the implication, but it's complicated.

e-scooters are controlled by a throttle, so I think there's a debate to be had as to whether that's a defining factor.

IMO the throttle is less critical than speed limiting. Anything you can pilot without a license should be restricted to 25km/h.

The problem is these limitations can easily be removed.

That's why I say it really needs proper policing. You need cops on bikes, and some kind of strategy to establish whether a bike is compliant.

[-] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 1 points 3 months ago

My bro in Berlin mentioned that infrequently the police will see up a rolling road device to stop ebikes, electric scooters etc (anything that by law is speed restricted).

They do it on a one way road where you can't see them, with police at the top end to stop anyone that's clearly seen and turned around to avoid it

[-] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 0 points 3 months ago

I don't know if I've ever seen a kid riding an actual e-bike, they are never pedaling when I see them ..

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 2 points 3 months ago

Me neither. There's probably several reasons you wouldn't buy a child a proper e-bike.

Mostly just the cost I guess. A proper e-bike is twice the cost of a home made e-whatever. Also less fun than their friend's e-whatevers.

[-] YellowParenti@lemmy.wtf 0 points 3 months ago

I've been following the surron and talaria bikes. These are electric dirt motorcycle. Half the vidoes I've seen are ppl riding them on the street. They've gotten so fast. They write all over their websites its for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. I want one so bad. Im sure if I ride them slowly on the sidewalk for my commute. I shouldn't get pulled over.

[-] gnu@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 months ago

Depending on where you are you might be able to get a road legal one. Talaria and Surron have both sold road legal versions of some of their models here in Australia, I believe they've also done so in the UK and I did read something about some US states letting you register them once appropriate lights are installed.

Of course this does require you to treat them as a motorbike and keep off footpaths, have the appropriate licence, etc. Once you've got the licence you can ride other motorbikes as well though so I don't see this as a downside (it's an enjoyable method of transport and more people should do it).

[-] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 1 points 3 months ago

I'm at the uncool end of that trend in the UK. I dumped my car 4yrs back and got an electric vespa-shaped vehicle. I already had my full bike licence which helped make it an easy decision but even in our weather really enjoyable and nsanely cheap motoring

[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social -1 points 3 months ago

The confusion between these things is causing harm

Seems like one possible solution should be calling motorcycles enginecycles so there's no confusion.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Changing the name of an existing system is a non-starter. That's why the new entry is called something else: ebike.

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

Really? Because I don't remember pedaling my Honda 750.

[-] Psythik@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

I don't remember pedaling my eBike, either. With a big enough motor, they're all but completely vestigal.

[-] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Can we use the same logic for motorscooters?

[-] BenderRodriguez@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

OP thinking he cracked the code to ride a motorcycle on the sidewalk.

[-] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Isn't it the electric equivalent of a moped?

[-] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 1 points 3 months ago

You're right but the word "moped" has lost meaning in most countries.

Here in the UK I suspect the majority of people asked wouldn't appreciate it originally had pedals and would point to a vespa image if asked.

I have an electric vespa-shaped vehicle (goes about 80kmh) that as you can see i really struggle to name as "electric scooter" most people think of one of those stand on things so I've landed on calling it an "electric moped". It works as equally in no way can someone accuse me of trying to make it sound cool :)

[-] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Is an e-scooter a motorcycle?

[-] Almacca@aussie.zone 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

In Australia at least, e-scooters are classed as a 'personal mobility device' which is the same classification that motorised wheelchairs are in.

[-] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Huh, I guess that makes sense. I don't think they fit into any category in Denver, CO. They aren't allowed on the sidewalks so that makes them a vehicle. But they really aren't a vehicle and are sort of pedestrians in the road.

[-] Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Upvote for the thought.

[-] Stitch0815@feddit.org 2 points 3 months ago
[-] Etterra@discuss.online 1 points 3 months ago

Depending on State, a small enough engine on a bicycle doesn't count as a motor vehicle.

[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I live in south east asia and motorbikes are the dominant transporation tool here and yes fast e-bikes are absolutely motorbikes. They would be treated here the same way and law wise but the adoption is very low because compared to a motorbike it's mostly a meme/entertainment vehicle as good ol motorbike is far superior and actually cheaper vehicle.

[-] YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago

Not all the time. My engine cycle has a three cylinder 2 stroke. It's scary fast.

[-] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

This is actually a really good one.

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Etymologically speaking, "engine" means any invention, whereas "motor" means specifically something that makes things move. A gasoline engine is a motor; an electric motor is an engine.

[-] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 months ago

Downvoters don't know about etymonline.

Engine

Motor

[-] teft@piefed.social 1 points 3 months ago

Not all motos are 4 stroke. My buddy rides a two stroke KTM and that thing cooks.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The difference is in power and control. Ebikes are speed capped. There are two types, pedal assist and throttle control. Pedel assist are ones that only turn on the motor when you are pedaling. Throttle control ebikes are speed capped even more than pedal assist. I think they should be banned because of jailbreaking and it puts you in the mental state of operating a machine rather than pedaling a bike.

Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.

Electric motorbikes are a thing too.

[-] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

You can buy e-bikes on amazon that weigh more and travel faster than a Honda Cub, a registerable motorcycle. They're in Grom territory. This idea, at least in the US market, that they're fitting into the two classes of safe e-bike is disproven with 30 seconds of observation in any city or adjacent suburb. The only riders pedaling are the leisure riders in parks.

Fortnine has two videos on the topic, one of the 60mph e-bike and one of converting a Cub to EV, making it faster than stock.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yes you can buy illegal things and break the law. Like really?

Or you're talking about electric motorbikes, which are not ebikes they are electric motorbikes.

Not actually sure on this one, because the terminology for motorcycles is... Weird.

Motorcycles are what we're all thinking of, Harleys, Kawasaki's, Yamaha's, etc. Mopeds and scooters look the same, and both usually have manual transmissions, but have a floor in them. I don't know that there's a word that encompasses both, much less including ebikes? Maybe motorbike

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago

Motorbike has been used interchangeably with motorcycle for most of their existence.

[-] Fourth@mander.xyz 0 points 3 months ago

Really unfortunate this classification system has happened. What you're thinking of is an electric moped, but it's all getting lumped together. Check this out.

https://youtu.be/bB6hBLmBhPA

[-] Routhinator@startrek.website 0 points 3 months ago

The differentiator is max speed in Canada. Regardless of how they are built. If you can exceed a certain speed, license required.

[-] jacksilver@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I think that's a good system. I have a pedal assisted bike and it feels like it'd be ridiculous to need to license it (it does have a "full throttle" mode, but I don't think it can even make it up to 20mph).

[-] forrgott@lemmy.sdf.org -2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Uh, no. Maybe check the definition of a word before you accuse people of using it wrong?

Besides, there is literally no benefit to this kind of approach. The most popular use of a word is the definition of the word, not the other way around. And yes, this means it will change over time. So even if motor didn't literally refer to a certain type of engine, the definition of the word motorcycle is not dependent on the definition of the word motor. Even if there was a contradiction between the definition of the two words that's literally irrelevant. There's no point getting all annoyed about it, that's just how language works. But you will not help anything by trying to force people to change how they're using a word. It'll just cause confusion and make communication even less clear.

this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2026
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