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excerpts from here: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html

ethno-nationalism is the core principle of political organization and policy in both cases, and the US/NATO help stoke the bonfire as needed to keep it burning bright and strong

and both saw a lot of ethnic pogroms during adjacent time periods that served to define the ethno-nationalist identity that remains with them to the present day

“The Kiev discourse on the Donbas war focuses almost exclusively on the geopolitical level and the relationship with Russia,” the paper says. The absence of a “local level of conflict” in this view has “serious consequences for the perception of the affected civilian population,” which is “perceived in Kiev as backward-looking, Soviet-influenced, unproductive, and authoritarian.” In the eyes of most interlocutors, “the Donbas cannot be about ‘reconciliation’ between individual ethnic or social groups.” From Kiev’s point of view, peace-building “will only be possible once the territories have been liberated, i.e., once they are once again completely under Ukrainian control.”

“Even though right-wing and far-right parties have not achieved significant success in elections since 2014, nationalist ideas have held considerable influence in the social debate over the conflict in the east (as well as on other issues). Time and again, nationalist actors succeed in forcing political leaders to adjust their policies.”

In 2017, for example, the “proportion of people without access to balanced nutrition” was 86 percent in the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk and 55 percent in Kiev-controlled areas. Since 2014, tens of thousands of homes have been damaged and destroyed. According to the OSCE, both sides—but particularly the Ukrainian Armed Forces—targeted civilian property.

The regime in Kiev, it said, did not care. “Quite a few politicians in Kiev regard the Donbas as an unnecessary economic burden and its population as backward-looking and politically unreliable. Its willingness to work to alleviate humanitarian hardship in the areas affected by conflict is correspondingly low,” the SWP paper says.

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[-] regul@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Difference being that people from Donetsk and Luhansk have internationally-recognized citizenship (even if it's a state they don't want to be a part of) and the backing of a country largely composed of the same ethnic group with a powerful military.

The situation would be more similar if Gaza and the West Bank were internationally recognized Israeli territory and the people living there could receive Israeli passports and vote for Jewish Israeli-approved political parties, but also had the backing of Egyptian and Jordanian states that had powerful and advanced militaries (and also if Palestinians considered themselves ethnically the same as Egyptians and Jordanians, which they do not I don't think).

[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

indeed, there are many specifics that are importantly different, but there's a lot of similarities as well in the political narratives that are created for libs to consume with regard to Ukraine and Israel

[-] regul@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

I don't even think by broad strokes they're that similar. Gazans have nowhere to go. Gazans have no international support. Gazans don't have a friendly country with an open border. Gazans have been living under these conditions since the 50s.

[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

a lot of similarities as well in the political narratives that are created for libs to consume with regard to Ukraine and Israel

it's the fictional lib narrative that is similar with regard to an oppressed population being the 'human animals', not the specifics of the material reality of the oppressed populations

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Zelensky said he wants Ukraine to become Israel

[-] Huldra@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

Paraphrasing from memory he said some shit like Israel and Ukraine are both under attack from inhumanly cruel hordes.

I should learn more about donbas. it always seemed like they had a lot legitimate grievances but the levels of propaganda are so intense around them that I wasn't sure what to believe (I mean the basics aren't in dispute but other details) and kinda dropped thinking about it in favor of a more sure-footed anti-war approach to the conflict.

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

the western press consistently referred to the militias formed to resist the coup regime's persecution as "Russian-backed separatists", pretending that everything would have been fine if somehow they hadn't been seduced by Russia

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

It's not like Ukraine's ethnonationalist policy has done anything but escalate

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Warsaw Uprising

this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
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