102
submitted 2 weeks ago by Valuy@lemmy.zip to c/world@lemmy.world
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] ccunning@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago

Single-sex toilets and changing rooms in England, Wales and Scotland must exclude transgender men and women, according to a new code of practice from the equalities watchdog.

But the long-awaited guidance also says that businesses and service providers have to offer practical alternatives such as gender-neutral toilets for people who do not wish to use services for their biological sex.

I guess I’m naive to hope that a business would rather convert existing facilities to two multi-sex bathrooms rather than have to build and give up existing space to a third bathroom.

[-] bl4ckp1xx13@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I hate, with a burning passion, the term "biological sex".

We have frankly, no fucking clue how our genetics and sex are intertwined.

We used to think it was "just chromosomes", but then we discovered "biological men" with double-X, or double-X and a Y, or vice-versa.

Or intersex individuals.

Then, we also got to consider that, say, a "biological woman" can transition to a "transgender man", which renders no change to their genes, just hormone levels, and they see physical development, voice deepening, hair growth, etc, just like a "biological man", or vice-versa.

In conclusion, "biological sex" is just another gross simplification created by people who's minds are so pathetic they can't comprehend reality and so choose to live by mantra founded in disproven pseudo-sciences, religion, and other excuses to avoid critical thinking, and then put themselves in positions of power.

[-] deranger@sh.itjust.works 20 points 2 weeks ago

Doesn’t sound to me like you know the difference between sex and gender. We do have a pretty solid idea of how genetics and sex are intertwined, including intersex conditions. Gender is a whole different thing.

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Biological sex is a dogwhistle made digestible to appease the apathetic moderate

Edit: and this entire thread is proof of that 🍿

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago

What about when you go to the doctor and they need to know what type of organs you were born with instead of what type of clothes you like to wear?

Sex ≠ gender.

It's wrong to try to force "gender" to mean "sex", but trying to force "sex" to mean "gender" is also wrong.

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That isn't even a reliable indicator, and if it comes up, it is a discussion between the patient and the doctor and no one else. We have the language to be specific. Besides, doctors don't even know what to do with trans people regardless of gender or surgeries because all medical research on the topic has been blocked, erased, or burned by knuckledraggers

(MTF) When I go to doctors I have to explain to them that if they run my bloodwork as Male, every single damn metric on it is going to be flashing bright red. When it's run as Female, I can get actual data out of it. Also guess who you go to if you have titty problems.

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago

I wasn't saying "organs" was an indicator. Obviously that's not the question on the medical form. I was using it as a placeholder because apparently I'm not allowed to use the term "biological sex." If you rule out the basic term used to describe something, don't be surprised when people use a less reliable descriptor to get the point across.

We have the language to be specific.

Yes, and the language for that is "biological sex." If you go to the doctor, they will ask you for your biological sex. Are you saying every medical questionnaire is really using transphobic dogwhistles?

Besides, doctors don't even know what to do with trans people regardless of gender or surgeries because all medical research on the topic has been blocked, erased, or burned by knuckledraggers

Doctors don't immediately get amnesia when something gets defunded. If a doctor already specialized in gender-affirming care, then they still know as much as they did before this administration shut down new research. If they didn't specialize in it before, then they were already ignorant about it anyway so it's not like this makes them more ignorant.

Using the government to hamper medical research is a bad thing, yes. Giving bigoted doctors an excuse to let their religion or politics influence the care they give is a bad thing too. And so is making doctors who do care have to fear for their medical licenses in order to continue providing medically necessary treatments. But claiming that doctors suddenly don't know what to do is a hyperbole that misses the actual issue.

and if it comes up, it is a discussion between the patient and the doctor and no one else.

I wasn't saying otherwise. You said "biological sex" is a useless concept and nothing but a dogwhistle, so I gave a counterexample of a situation where it's has a legitimate use as a concept.

If a trans man goes to the doctor, it's not transphobic for that doctor to ask if he may be pregnant or when his last period was. That's standard information that doctors ask every patient who has ovaries. When it comes to routine medical exams, gender simply doesn't matter as much as biological sex.

Obviously if someone is on hormone therapy then it changes the indicators and target ranges for lab work. It changes the specific things to mainly look out for, like types of cancers and bone density or cholesterol issues. Having organs removed, whether cis or trans, changes risk factors for a variety of diseases and renders some screenings less necessary. That should all be taken into account, of course, but pretending that "biological sex" is useless in medical contexts is an ignorant take.

And besides, if "biological sex" is such a bogus concept, then what do we even contrast "gender" with in the first place? If those are different things, then each one logically must be something, or else there wouldn't be two different concepts, in which case the two concepts would collapse in on each other and become functionally the same. If you want them to be distinct, then pretending one of them doesn't really exist is counterproductive.

It's like race and ethnicity. Race is a social construct, sure, but nobody takes that to mean ethnicity doesn't exist or is just a useless dogwhistle.

load more comments (19 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 6 points 2 weeks ago

I don’t like it by association, because most of the time I hear it used by intolerant people (like right wing assholes on the “news”). Sometimes, though, I hear it used without malice, presumably because people don’t know what else to say.

Pardon my ignorance, but what term would you suggest instead? Birth sex? Assigned sex? Something else?

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] venusaur@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I totally understand what you’re saying, but if you take gender out of it and just think about humans as any other animal, you could classify animals with penises and animals with vaginas separately especially if you’re breeding them. The AI overlords won’t care when they’re breeding us.

EDIT: two types of genitalia instead of just penis and vagina. And not all but many animals.

[-] meco03211@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Here's the thing though, pretty much everything you just said is wrong. It's not that simple if you think of humans as any other animal. Here's a video link that is pretty long, but dives fairly deep into this topic that is massive from a scientific point of view.

https://youtu.be/nVQplt7Chos

load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (14 replies)
load more comments (34 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[-] palordrolap@fedia.io 28 points 2 weeks ago

There is a solution to all of this. Unitary WCs. Each has one toilet, one sink, at least one method for drying hands and at least one sanitary disposal for non-flushable items. Mirror optional. A toilet brush might also be a good idea.

Communal rooms should go the way of the dinosaur.

That way, anyone, regardless of persuasion, intent or comfort level, can use a toilet in peace. And if they want to invite someone else in for safety, so be it.

All the problems with this solution are excuses, and usually not very good ones.

[-] InternationalHermit@lemmy.today 11 points 2 weeks ago

I believe that communal bathrooms are cheaper to build and maintain, hence we still have them, not because anyone enjoys using them.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

That's what he said:

excuses, and usually not very good ones.

load more comments (8 replies)
[-] valtia@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Thankfully, there's an even better, easier, cheaper, and just solution to this as well

Negate the ruling and allow transgender people to use the correct bathroom that is congruent with their gender identity

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago

More frequently it's individual toilets and shared sinks.

[-] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

Communal rooms should go the way of the dinosaur.

obliterated by high velocity rocks?

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

So, a bathroom ban for the entire UK?

Did you guys see the US speed running a regression arc and decide to try your hand at it?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 weeks ago

single sex toilets must be forever prohibited from existing, says actual equality and human rights

load more comments (14 replies)
[-] cranakis@reddthat.com 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I'm curious how they'll handle enforcement. "Please present your genitals for inspection before entering"

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Oh, this type thinks they "can always tell".

Thing is, they can't. Trans people pass as cis pretty often, even to transphobes. And they're constantly 'transvestigating' people who are actually cis.

What this will actually accomplish is license to harass (and, yes, probably attempt to inspect the genitals of) anyone who's even a little bit gender non-conforming. It will mainly hurt cis women and cis men who, respectively, don't look feminine enough or don't look masculine enough. Functionally, it's just another way to enforce gender conformity.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 17 points 2 weeks ago

Terf island at it again.

[-] tomkatt@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

Never thought I'd ask this but... how do I determine the gender of my toilet? And how do I confirm it's cis-gendered?

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] mudkip@lemdro.id 14 points 2 weeks ago

They want trans genocide, they aren't even trying to hide it anymore

load more comments (13 replies)
[-] robocall@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Why do gendered toilets exist anymore? It's the 21st century and we don't need them.

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Did we ever need them?

It's because of this people think girls don't poop lol

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] nialv7@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

... says Equality and Human Rights Commission

1984 Ministry of Truth type shit

[-] Greyghoster@aussie.zone 12 points 2 weeks ago

I thought that toilets were a primarily a public health concern. If they are not provided then unfortunate things start happening in secluded corners.

[-] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 10 points 2 weeks ago

Isn't that the goal here? Exclude people from toilets. They have to pee elsewhere. Arrest them for public urination or "indecent exposure". Maybe put them on some kind of sex offender list like the Americans are doing for people caught urinating in public. Spread fear about "trans sex offenders".

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] grimpy@lemmy.myserv.one 10 points 2 weeks ago

how about no more segregated toilets, full stop?

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 weeks ago

Wish granted. All toilets are open concept, no partitions.

[-] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

being back Roman Shittatoriums I'll bring the communal sponge

[-] Naich@piefed.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

So how are these dipshits going to feel when a trans man uses the female toilet?

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

They're going to feel great because that'll give them another opportunity to harass transgender people.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

There's a simple solution to this that I've seen some bars in my city do. Make all the cubicles and urinals gender-neutral and mark them as such.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 2 weeks ago

This seems like the obvious solution. An area for stand-up wees. An area for sit-down wees and poos. Everyone can wash their hands together in an open area.

No need to bring gender into expelling waste. Wouldn't be surprised to find modern toilets were invented by the Victorians so men wouldn't have to find out that women also shit.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Surely the legal challenge against this is already started?

The supreme court didnt actually mention toilets, and said changing rooms may work ( if they have privacy rooms)

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Do you want people to pee on the bathroom doors? Because that's how you get people to pee on bathroom doors.

[-] auzy1@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I'm having an argument with idiots here in Australia trying to "protect women". No joke, most of them are toxic blokes who are trying to be masculine. I even got told by one I'm not a man, because I should be protecting women.

In another thread, there was a guy who was posting back and forth telling me I was a guy dictating things.. whilst, I didn't even comment what should be done. I just commented that climbing gyms are running womxn nights for years without issue and it's a non issue is causing some of them to go nuts

In fact, they solved the dilemma entirely by just going unisex (and, the toilet cubicles are full length and mostly soundproof it feels like, so they're actually awesome

[-] SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

All of this is solved with just using more single occupancy bathrooms. Just an open hallway with rooms and toilets and changing stations. Sinks in the hallway.

load more comments (10 replies)
[-] Renat@szmer.info 4 points 2 weeks ago

I once heard one gender critical person who is against excluding Transgender people from toilets cause they need to pee too. He told he would be confused saying transgender person with passing(MTF) in male toilet. He also have a unsual idea of Passing Licences that in his opinion this licence should require the surgery. I don't have contact with any transgender person who had a surgery, but some of these that I know and don't have surgery have 100% passing. Imo stupid idea. Some gender critical people want to ban the surgery.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 21 May 2026
102 points (97.2% liked)

World News

56429 readers
753 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS