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[-] windowlicker@hexbear.net 51 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

i've been wearing mine every day (which, by the way, ones made by hirbawi are unbelievably soft and beautiful) and have gotten quite a few hostile reactions to it. even people outright saying its "disturbing to see" and one guy yelling "fuck you". and they call the left snowflakes... they're offended over a beautiful scarf.

[-] HamManBad@hexbear.net 29 points 9 months ago

hirbawi is completely sold out of all colors from what I can tell, which is as awesome for them as it is sad for me

[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

Sold out and not taking pre orders.

[-] windowlicker@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

if you get onto their mailing list, they send out emails when the distributors receive shipments of them from palestine. i got one immediately after getting an email about a restock of a few of them.

[-] Vampire@hexbear.net 27 points 9 months ago

I get reactions of uncontrolled lust mainly

[-] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 31 points 9 months ago

I've had my eye on this store for many years and I regret not buying sooner.

Still, I'm waiting for my order but it's one of the few times I don't really care if it's unfulfilled. Hope they can use the money to just survive out there. If they make it, then I'll buy more later when this hopefully cools down. I just hope this craft can continue authentically in Palestine.

[-] Vampire@hexbear.net 20 points 9 months ago

Nabulsi soap is something else comrades could consider buying

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 13 points 9 months ago

I got one around 2020 because i saw it was the last factory that made them in Palestine and I knew they needed money. I was also concerned that Israel might try to pull something and end up bombing the factory. I never really wore it because I’m not Palestinian, but unironically it is probably the only time I felt 100% good about spending money.

[-] micnd90@hexbear.net 24 points 9 months ago

You are allowed to wear one, you are encouraged to wear one, directly from primary source

https://hirbawiusa.com/blogs/hirbawi-stories/but-im-not-palestinian

It is okay to be Palestiweeb. Regardless, it also makes a beautiful wall decoration, and these days made in Palestine scarves are hard to get by. So I understand people want to cherish and display their keffiyeh without risking damaging them.

[-] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

Indeed, religion is about as relevant to wearing a keffiyeh as is your ability to make a perfect batch of hummus (though that skill is always a bonus!)

vegan-liberation-rad

[-] borlax@hexbear.net 6 points 9 months ago

Great post, I’m definitely not as self conscious about wearing mine now.

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 5 points 9 months ago

Oh okay that’s good to know!

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 16 points 9 months ago

Every time a Zionist sees one in public, they seethe with rage and hatred. It is your duty to wear one not just out of solidarity, but also because it’s funny seeing genocidal assholes cry

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago

It's good to wear them in solidarity even if you're not Palestinian!

[-] Tunnelvision@hexbear.net 5 points 9 months ago

That’s cool to know! It’s really a nice piece and can go with a lot of outfits.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

I don't know them directly but I've been a customer for a long time and I know they really struggle to get shipments out to their distributor in Germany due to Israel blockading them.

I think what that means is that it can be really hard for them to know when they'll get more stock and what stock they're going to get in. Which means that their distributor is probably going to be very reluctant to take backorders because they don't what to deal with a bunch of refunds or angry/disappointed customers who haven't had their order shipped for 6 months.

Obviously they do limited amounts of pre-orders at times but you should consider hitting them up to request that they start offering gift vouchers - that way you'd be able to provide them with financial support and you would be able to cash in and get your keffiyeh eventually, once they've got the colour you fancy in stock.

[-] borlax@hexbear.net 26 points 9 months ago

I bought one from this company a couple years back just to support the business, I never really wore it because I didn’t wanna come off like I was appropriating it. I had hopes it would be viewed more as solidarity, but still was unsure about it.

[-] micnd90@hexbear.net 40 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Mandela wore it in solidarity with the Palestinian people, so can you

[-] RonPaulyShore@hexbear.net 16 points 9 months ago

it's a melanin issue dude.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

I want to say this sounds pretty racist

[-] RonPaulyShore@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

yes, my observation/perception that others are more likely to view a white person wearing a keffiyeh as someone cosplaying as Lawrence of Arabia, as opposed to a black person doing the same, is motivated by racial animus/prejudice, you've got me.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 18 points 9 months ago

Pretty sure anyone that doesn't already have a foot in the grave or isn't a history crank even knows who laurance of Arabia is, and is more likely than not associate the thing with the most recent historical events associated with it. So yeah I do got you

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[-] kristina@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago

he looks so comfy here

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 24 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It's not cultural appropriation in the sense that you are commodifying or personally benefitting/helping yourself to sacred cultural artefacts or symbols.

If you aren't wearing one to pass yourself off as if you are Arabic when you're not then that's one thing off the list.

If you aren't selling keffiyeh produced in China at a stall at some hippy market that's another thing off the list.

Keffiyeh aren't sacred, so that's another thing off the list.

Think of it like a sombrero. Not a tacky prop sombrero but an actual sombrero. If you lived in a desert climate or you were travelling through a desert area and you bought yourself a sombrero from a Mexican milliner to wear, that's not cultural appropriation it's just a wise choice and a Mexican is going to look at you wearing your sombrero and they're either going to think "That's a nice sombrero - I wonder where they bought that" or "Finally, a güero has enough sense to wear a wide-brimmed hat under this beating sun. Usually they only come wearing a baseball cap at the very most."

I wear a keffiyeh often, as a white person, and the only time I've ever had people notice it is when a person of Palestinian heritage in a professional capacity felt comfortable enough to open up to me about their political opinions about Zionism and the abuses that Israel is inflicting upon Palestinians (which was ballsy given the context and the fact that there could easily have been repercussions for their employment) and another person who was a migrant from an Arab country who was gushing over the colour of mine and who ended up being an instant friend because I was wearing it.

Think about how you feel when you see someone in the wild wearing a hamsick or antifascist symbol. That's probably a decent approximation of how a Palestinian would see an outsider who wears a keffiyeh.

[-] Juice@hexbear.net 21 points 9 months ago

I've worn mine to protests and Palestinian people like go out of their way to interact with me, waving, saying hello, etc.,

I bought mine probably in June and wore it to a socialist convention in August in solidarity with a pro-BDS group that was the center of a big struggle session in the org. Honestly at the time it seemed a little weird (I was joking "solidarity with BDS and yt pepo in Keffiyehs") but that was like 15000 deaths ago. When the enemies are out in the open its easier to tell who is on your side.

Also "cultural appropriation" is a form of erasure. Since you wear it to try and save the culture of the Palestinians, to protect it and defend it, you aren't appropriating. Like, technically. Appropriation is taking the cultural capital of another culture that can be monetized and commodifying it, while erasing other forms of social and cultural capital that can't be made into commodities. This severs the cultural symbol from its original (now eliminated) cultural and social context, leaving only the commodity. At least that's my formulation

[-] borlax@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago

Yeah your point about erasure is a very good one, my intent is the exact opposite.

[-] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

i think the thing to understand about the keffiyah as it relates to palestine is that it is primarily a symbol of political solidarity. of course it has a long history in the levant and the middle east in general, but the specific black and white design which is associated with the struggle for palestinian liberation only came into wider use in the 20th century. if you are a friend of the movement in good faith (and if your purchasing power is going directly in the pockets of gazans under occupation), there is no "appropriation."

from this i would extrapolate further and say that the most basic definition of solidarity as a revolutionary principle requires us to see ourselves as fundamentally like the Other. i think the impulse to separate ourselves from each other in this way, to refuse to adopt another's struggle as our own, is a liberal one, and neutralizes our energies.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Appropriation has different meanings.

If you’re presenting yourself as some activist online or IRL but never actually participate anything or even know what the meaning and history behind the outfits/slogans, then yes it’s appropriation.

The other one is people benefitting from another’s culture without the consequences (e.g. white people with dreads having little consequences socioeconomically, luxury brands “elevating” a subgroup’s “inferior” garment). But the thing is, people are being targeted and harassed for wearing a kefiyah regardless of their culture, race, nationality, etc. You’re benefitting from solidarity and just having a cool garment, but you also won’t be hiding from the unfortunate reality of potentially being a target to fascists.

Your name, skin color, race, etc. may shield you in other situations, but when you wear one, you quite literally become the enemy of two states. I say this 100% sincerely that pro-Palestine people have a lot more to risk than any Zionist.

[-] glans@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago

I have same concerns as @borlax@hexbear.net....

even know what the meaning and history behind the outfits/slogans, then yes it’s appropriation.

how do i learn this specifically about the keffiyehs?

I just read the wikipedia; quite the roller coaster. But doesn't make me feel that I know enough to be defensible.

[-] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 15 points 9 months ago

Palestinians have asked people to wear them. It is a symbol of solidarity, don't let your fear of accidentally being a little bit symbolically racist stop you from showing solidarity.

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 25 points 9 months ago

I mean they look really comfortable

[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 15 points 9 months ago

They keep you cool when it's hot and sunny. They keep you warm when it's cold. It's the most versatile piece of fabric in the world.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

They're super versatile too

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

They really are

[-] micnd90@hexbear.net 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Proud owner of one, managed to get it just in time before it became really hard to get https://hexbear.net/post/1092947

But I wish I could get a couple more. I wanted the red-white one as it is the symbol for PFLP, the Irish solidarity one, and the black and red one for Antifa colors. I wanted to buy so many as Christmas gifts to family and friends. I had notification on for in-stock items, but everytime the scarves were available for preorder the website became really buggy due to traffic and they were gone within hours.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago

The black-on-black one is also a good choice for having it on hand for the riot.

I'm a big fan of having double masks if you're ever doing black bloc or grey bloc - one outer that you can have as a removable if you get maced with something tighter underneath like a gaiter so that way you're still covered if you remove the outer layer (or worse, if an antagonist tries to remove your outer layer to get images of your face to find out your identity.)

Am I encouraging you to spend a hundred dollars on a personal selection of keffiyeh? Yes. Yes I am.

[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

I got a cap with a Palestine Flag on it and I think I've gotten the stink-eye from a few older folks. Gods know I couldn't wear a keffiyeh to work. I'd get caught on a dang machine. :p

[-] micnd90@hexbear.net 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Get a red and white one, then you can educate people by saying you are technically against Hamas, as the red and white keffiyeh is an unofficial symbol for the PFLP - the Marxist political party in Palestine. I thought them libs like to vote what's better than to support Hamas political rival. Then tell them that actually Neythanyahu sent money and aid to Hamas, so Neythanyahu is a bigger Hamas supporter than you. Oct 7th wouldn't have happened if he sent money to PFLP instead. If anything, we should send money to PFLP

[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 18 points 9 months ago

Most of the libs that are still standing firm with the War Department are too brain-rotted to accept or listen to the fact that Isreal funded Hamas.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 15 points 9 months ago

Israel really looked at the blowback from the US funding afghan guerrillas and thought “nah I’m built different”

[-] micnd90@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

Then it is time to tell them to cope, seethe and mald and send them the "there is no need to be upset" video with the flying lawnmower on their socials

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago

Get a green, white, and red one and say it's for Christmas. And for Christmas, you'd like a free Palestine.

[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago

Not technically a lie, but that characterization of Hamas and the PFLP isn't accurate for the current war. Both groups are allied and attacked the IDF in concert on October 7th.

[-] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

I live in a part of the country where I've only gotten compliments on mine

[-] GeorgeZBush@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago

Damn I think I might get one

this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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