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submitted 11 months ago by LesserAbe@lemmy.world to c/til@lemmy.world

This site has these sorts of stats for each state.

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[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 118 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I agree with the sentiment. There's a large gap between minimum wage and housing. I don't think anybody expects to afford an ultra luxurious three-story corner penthouse loft from working full time at Taco Bell, but I do think it's reasonable to expect to be able to afford a simple, safe, one-bedroom in good repair.

I own so I'm completely out of touch with rent prices. I know what they were when I was renting 10+ years ago but things are a lot different now. I went on apartments.com to see if I could prove this study wrong.

TL/DR: I could, but ... not really.

My criteria was: (1) under $1002 / month, (2) in a safe area, (3) with free parking, (4) within a 10-minute drive of at least two supermarkets, and (5) within a 20-minute drive of most of our metro area. I found multiple apartment complexes that met all those criteria, along with multiple independent rentals. All of the complexes were within the $900 - $1000 range. So ... yes, technically I just proved the survey wrong. But that $100 savings doesn't really exist.

First, you need a car to get from there to here. That's non negotiable. Our mass transit here sucks and you're either going to be two hours early or 15 minutes late, and that's assuming you have a regular, consistent schedule to work with. So let's assume you buy a sensible 10-year-old Civic / Corolla / whatever with 90k miles in immaculate condition. I found a few options nearby for $12k, and let's assume you talk the dealer down another $2k, you have a $2500 downpayment, and there's no tax because we're in magical la-la land. Let's also assume you got zero percent interest because it's 2003 again for some reason. A 60-month loan would be $125, or an additional 4 hours a week.

Next, let's talk groceries. Let's say you are exceptionally frugal and can prepare nutritious, filling meals for yourself with only a $200 / month grocery spend. That's an extra 7 hours of work per week.

Next, gotta put gas in that car. Your friend, who happens to a magical elf, magically conjures up gasoline just for you for the low, low price of $2 / gallon. Wow! Combined with your extremely thrifty vehicle (and your commute, which also just happens to be entirely on interstate at 40 MPG), you only go through 10 gallons of fuel a week. At $80 / month, that's an extra 3 hours of work per week.

Don't forget car insurance! Your driving record is spotless, your FICO score makes TransUnion weep like that statute of liberty from The Onion's political cartoons, and your driving is angelic. Your full-coverage premium (because you don't want to get hit with surprise bills) is only $75 per month. You pay in full to avoid fees, so that's another two hours of work each week.

Did I mention car maintenance? You do all your own oil changes, filter changes, tire rotation, everything, because you're a frugal bastard. I don't even know what oil costs because I'm fortunate enough to be able to pay people to do that for me, so just for the sake of making things easy, let's say ~~one banana~~ ten dollars per week. Heck, let's just round that down an hour of work per week.

Oh and let's make utilities super simple. That apartment includes water, sewer, trash, cable, and internet. You only have to pay electric and gas. And because it's exceptionally well insulated and you're very frugal with your electricity, your combined electric and gas bill is only $75 / month, averaged year round. That's only two hours of work per week.

You use an MVNO to save a fortune, and your phone is only $20 / month. That's a half hour of work per week.

And I know it's exorbitant, but you have the audacity to want to go out once in a while. You splurge by getting the dollar menu at McDonald's (which doesn't exist anymore BTW) so you budget an extra $30 / month on "fun money". That's an extra hour a week.

So with those extremely unrealistic and lowball numbers, you're looking at an additional 20-ish hours of work each week. To afford that barebones and frankly impossible lifestyle, you're looking at working 125 hours a week. That's 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, with no downtime ever. And again, I'm using impossibly low numbers here and making a lot of assumptions that will never happen.

That's before taxes. That assumes you never get sick. You never splurge on luxuries like "plates" or "clothing". Your car lasts forever. You're never a victim of crime. Your rent never increases. Inflation never happens. And you never take time to go on interviews for a better paying job.

So yeah, I technically proved the study wrong, but not in any remotely good way.

[-] QualifiedKitten@kbin.social 28 points 11 months ago

It's late, so I could be making dumb mistakes here, but I think the numbers are at least loosely factoring in those sort of expenses. It's not 100 hours/week just to cover rent, it's 100 hours/week to actually maybe afford that rent.

$7.25/hour x 40 hours/week x 4 weeks/month = $1160/month gross income
Assuming a maximum of 1/3 of gross income goes to housing, that's $383/month available for rent. The site calculates $377/month as "affordable rent" for the minimum wage worker, so for the sake of the argument, I think my calculations are close enough.
So, that means for every hour worked, about $2.39 is going towards rent ($7.25x0.33).
$2.39/hour x 106 hours/week x 4 weeks/month = $1013, which is just over their "1-Bedroom Fair Market Rent" rate of $1002/month.

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[-] InvaderDJ@lemmy.world 54 points 11 months ago

If you can't afford basic necessities on minimum wage, the wage is too low and the job doesn't deserve to exist IMO.

Especially when so many of the largest companies are profitable and making more and more money. This system is unsustainable. It also causes societal unrest which leads to extremism. I don't understand the mindset behind it, the increasing polarization as things get more and more unaffordable seems to support the theory.

[-] AnxiousOtter@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Nonsense, you just need to pull harder on those bootstraps. Pull 'em all the way to the moon.

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[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

You're right. I would love to see legislation that ties the minimum wage to cost of living.

[-] daikiki@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

That was the whole fucking point of minimum wage in the first place, but somewhere between Nixon and Reagan we collectively forgot what government was for and now half of America Is like 'Spank me harder, daddy' every four years and I don't even know what's going on anymore.

[-] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Right?

So many "conservatives" these days seem to really only have the political position of "I'll be fucked if I'll stand for the possibility of anyone, anywhere having their situation improved unless my own situation is improved even more in the process. I would rather burn this fucker to the ground, with me in it, than see someone else get any kind of aid or relief that I'm not getting, even if I don't need it or want it anyway."

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[-] indigojasper@kbin.social 33 points 11 months ago

damn, and that's just the rent, not even factoring in food and clothing. wow.

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[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Pull up those fucking bootstraps! /s

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[-] chitak166@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

How many people are working for minimum wage in Pennsylvania?

[-] MaxVoltage@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Almost no one. Either they pay you just a little over minimum or well under the minimum

[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

I don't know exactly. That site says 437,146 people make below $30k/yr, whereas $7.25 works out to about $15k/yr.

[-] owatnext@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Lmao Pennsylvania is rough. Jawn is worse the further in the sticks you are. 2.1k in my town for a two bedroom.

[-] DLSantini@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico looking pretty sane. What's the catch? There's always a catch.

[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

I mean, I guess there's hurricanes

[-] meliaesc@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

But the president will come throw paper towels at you afterwards, so no worries.

[-] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Job market.

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this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
723 points (98.0% liked)

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