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submitted 11 months ago by oktherebuddy@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net
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[-] davel@hexbear.net 63 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Liberals who never pretended to be leftist are being called traitors by liberals who do pretend to be leftists. This BS been going on since the Obama years.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 31 points 11 months ago

Since Obama? clueless I think you know it's been going on much longer than that, probably over 110 years

[-] davel@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Well sure. My point was in reference to attacks on Greenwald & Taibbi specifically.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

Oh right yeah ofc

It's libs all the way down

[-] flan@hexbear.net 46 points 11 months ago

Naomi Klein continues to be the superior Naomi.

[-] HamManBad@hexbear.net 12 points 11 months ago

Her new book is great, it helped me to organize my own thoughts about politics in the COVID years, which I was really struggling to do

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 43 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

supports authoritarian Russia

The Left critique calls for freedom of movement for people as well as capital;

the paragraph where I stopped reading this shit

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[-] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 11 months ago

The Left critique calls for freedom of movement for people as well as capital

wtf is this shit? no thanks, "globalization" (imperialism) sucks no matter how pretty you try to dress it rhetorically

[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago

people sure but the capital can sod off

[-] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

i agree

smuglord <(but what if PEOPLE decide to bring their capital though)

if i could go back in time i'd hunt down the people who normalized companies having the same rights as people

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago

I once got a ledditor who thought capital flight laws meant that rich people wouldn't be allowed to travel

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 25 points 11 months ago

None of these people were leftists, they were liberals or "average" people molded by social environments.

To quote a post that I once stole from here from a poster I've now forgotten the origin of:

Liberals entire thing is "uphold the status quo". This is the position of pretty much every single politically illiterate liberal who really doesn't understand what any ideology actually is. They change their shape in order to fit themselves into whatever the existing social paradigm is.

This is why LGBT people got absolutely nowhere with liberals until they literally bullied them with riots and pride parades saying a big visible fuck you to everyone that ever tried to make them invisible. They could not be asked to change they had to be bullied and forced. Once the social paradigm is changed they then accept it.

This is why anger and cancelling on twitter became a thing. It bullied liberals into new social paradigms.

This is why it works for dirtbag leftists.

And this is why they picked up guns and shot at whoever the nazis told them to shoot at. Not because they were true believers. But because mussolini or hitler and every other fascist simply bullies them into a new social paradigm... and once the paradigm is changed they accept it.

Liberals are absorbomorphs. Their ideology is absorbomorphism.

These "leftists" were people placed into left social circles whose environment was surrounded by so much left that their absorbomorphism molded itself into a leftist.

When their social environments no longer forced them into this shape, they change shape.

They are unlike the depressed leftists cursed by Marx to a life of misery who can never give up their leftism. They change their shape continuously.

[-] Donald_Drumpfler@hexbear.net 24 points 11 months ago

Max Blumenthal, well-known far-right conspiracy theorist

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 29 points 11 months ago

the article's biggest hit against him is "supporting aUtHoRiTaRiAn Russia", it doesn't even bring up vaccines

just trash

[-] davel@hexbear.net 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Taibbi specifically is under attack right now for exposing the mis- dis- mal-information discourse—and the governmental & non-governmental institutions that have sprouted from it—to be just parts of the larger propaganda machine of the coalition of the Democrats and the Never Trumpers. He’s an existential threat to them maintaining control of corporate social media discourse and gaining control of fediverse discourse.

Edit to add: In case anyone thinks I’m being hyperbolic in bringing up potential fediverse censorship, I’ve got a PDF for you from the Atlantic Council: Collective Security in a Federated World

[-] wahwahwah@hexbear.net 36 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I dunno, I’ve heard about his history (sexpt in Russia, Twitter files bs, the BLM chapo episode) and he seems like a dipshit who happens to sometimes be right. I’m tired of media personalities. All of them.

[-] dannoffs@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

It's embarrassing that we have people on this site defending these shitheads as "solid journalists" and not immediately getting dunked on.

[-] davel@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

He (and Greenwald) are solid journalists, but they’re also libs. Importantly, they’re not partisan hacks, which is why they get attacked by whichever party happens to be in power at any given moment.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 13 points 11 months ago

Importantly, they’re not partisan hacks

Idk I've seen a lot from Greenwald where he is specifically against the left. They seem very "partisan"

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

I think “partisan” in this context means not genuflecting to either Republicans or Democrats.

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[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 11 months ago

He (and Greenwald) are solid journalists,

doubt

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Well what does that matter? Both parties are servile bootlickers of capital who think leftists should be removed from society, one party just thinks it should be done through executions

The first thing I see when I look up Taibbi is some article where he's handwringing about people 'being unwilling to explore different points of view post Trump' (lmao), and Greggy G's twitter feed has his most recent tweet where he dumps on some journo for following the state department line vis a vis Israel (cool), and 2 tweets back from that where he seems to be going after a judge Lula appointed because a podcaster (who defended the existence of a Brazilian Nazi party, invited on stereotypical gamers, and generally seemed to be 'problematic') thought the judge was shit (absolutely not cool)

Being 'non partisan' in this shithole hardly matters when both parties serve the same interests anyway.

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[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

the sexpat stuff was based on satirical articles and has been debunked by talking with the people involved

but I agree he's a dipshit on the other stuff alone

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[-] flan@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

whats the mis- dis- mal-information discourse

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 11 months ago

So "misinformation" is just incorrect information being spread. "disinformation" is deliberately spreading wrong information with the intent to deceive.

"malinformation" is correct information that goes against the US government line. So educating people on the context of a historical event or geopolitics, but doing so in a way the US government doesn't approve of, is "malinformation." They're literally trying to reframe educating people as a potential crime. It's some fucked up shit.

And that other guy is talking about US politics where they accused "malinformation" of being one of the main reasons Clinton lost (i.e. people were informed that she is a horrific ghoul of a politician responsible for the destruction of Libya and that made people not want to vote for her.) They of course blamed this on "the Russians" as they do, because the US ruling class doesn't want their citizens to live in reality.

[-] flan@hexbear.net 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

i have honestly never seen anyone use the word malinformation before today but i appreciate your explanation. Very strange that the other person was refusing to explain wtf they were talking about, normally people are eager to explain things they care about.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 11 months ago

I think they may have been hung up on the word "discourse" there and assumed that you were up to speed with the terms, but not the conversation about them.

Though I really don't get their "big ball of wax" comment, it really isn't hard to say "the US government tries to manipulate people at home and abroad through manipulation of information and language."

[-] davel@hexbear.net 11 points 11 months ago

Where have you been since Clinton lost the election? One place to start might be the Disinformation Governance Board.

[-] flan@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Are you talking about people blaming russia for clinton's loss and election interference? Phrasing this stuff as "the mis- dis- mal-information discourse" makes it sound like there are a bunch of people arguing about the definitions of those things on twitter.

Your post comes across as needlessly hostile here. Instead of calling me ignorant and dropping a wikipedia link for a thing that existed for 4 months try explaining yourself.

[-] davel@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago

I’m sorry but I don’t know how to summarize this long, winding current in American socio-media-politics of the last six years in a Lemmy comment. It’s just too big a ball of wax, and I’m not up for it.

[-] flan@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

And so you thought "the mis- dis- mal-information discourse" would be the way people would understand what you're talking about and what it is Taibbi has exposed?

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[-] axont@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The examples given at the start are Matt Taibbi (Walmart Hunter S. Thompson), a bunch of comedians, Naomi Wolf (advisor to the Clinton admin), and the hosts of Red Scare.

The only ones out of those who claimed to be leftists were the Red Scare podcast, but from the times I listened they mainly complained about cigarettes or discussed which things are the most "cucked." I never got any leftist vibes at all other than sometimes they'd drop a name like Gramsci or Donna Haraway.

The only real thing I'm getting from this article is liberal media figures sometimes figure out they can make more money hanging out with Peter Thiel if they start saying slurs more often. They just gotta start claiming they were canceled by leftist wokes and then bam they're eating oysters at a fancy upper west side party with some rich guy who owns an app that predicts how white a person is based on nostril shape

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 19 points 11 months ago

God damn it, Ana. I dismissed people who said she would do "why I left the left" type of content and here she is more or less doing that about mythical crime waves.

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

There’s a point here in that the alt-right will sometimes call for very narrow elements of social-democratic political economy (at least when no one has to break out the state checkbook for it), and that can lead disaffected leftists astray. But the article is also doing a disservice by not acknowledging that part of that shift happens because the alt-right sprinkles a few nuggets of truth in the otherwise shit sandwich. Yes, corporate charters waxing poetically about diversity policies is a smokescreen for capital. Yes, the Democrats are going to bat for institutions like the CIA and legacy media.

There’s a problem in political thinking where the other side must be wrong about everything all the time as that’s what makes them wrong, and vice versa for our side. In reality, any side can make truthful observations, but still be wrong in the goals. It’s the old flaw prevalent among the Western left where ideas are the things from which politics spring from, and not that the process is where politics happens.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I remember liberals getting caught completely off guard around 2015 when altright types started saying outright racist things without shying away. Liberals had gotten too used to Glenn Beck trying to do wacky chalkboard stuff, or Ben O'Reilly being a curmudgeon. Now here comes these younger internet goofballs who don't shy away from being called racist. Their protocols stopped working, plus alt-right types were saying a semblance of correct things by criticizing capital. Really poor unstructured and racist criticisms, but sometimes with a co-opted leftist message like fascists always do.

You're right, liberals had no choice but to dismiss everything neo-fascists were saying.

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[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

Did you mean to post this in the dunk tank?

[-] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago

Honestly, I feel quite despairist at the state of the U.S left... on the other hand, the rest of the international left should be doing fine...

[-] plinky@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago

Strasserism be like. Intelligentsia always been that way though

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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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