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The six-year-old student who shot his teacher in the US earlier this year, boasted about the incident saying "I shot [her] dead", unsealed court documents show.

While being restrained after the shooting at a Virginia school, the boy is said to have admitted "I did it", adding "I got my mom's gun last night".

His teacher, Abigail "Abby" Zwerner - who survived - filed a $40m (£31.4m) lawsuit earlier this year.

The boy has not been charged.

The boy's mother, however, Deja Taylor, has been charged with felony child neglect and misdemeanour recklessly leaving a loaded firearm as to endanger a child.

In Ms Zwerner's lawsuit, filed in April, she accuses school officials of gross negligence for ignoring warning signs and argues the defendants knew the child "had a history of random violence

The documents also mention another incident with the same student while he was in kindergarten. A retired teacher told police he started "choking her to the point she could not breathe".

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[-] MonkRome@lemmy.world 164 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's amazing to me how focused these comments are on the child being "evil" and not the environment that created this situation. A child isn't born believing that shooting their teacher is a viable solution to their problems. At 6 years old you're barely functional. For this to happen they had to exist in a profoundly fucked up environment with no moral compass and access to a lot of information, presented without good context, far above their age. Everyone responsible for raising this kid should be held responsible.

This kid needs years of therapy and support and a loving caregiver. Before the age of 10 children are incredibly impressionable and still undergoing very basic core development, until the age of 25 people are still in development to some level. There are many years ahead where this child can be saved from themselves. There is no reason to call a 6 year old irredeemable.

[-] BigDawg@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

It can be both sadly. Some kids are born not right. But will usually be ok with good and professional follow up and loving parents. But there are some kids born without the ability to emphasize with others and that never will get the help they need. And they become terrifying in their teens.

[-] IrrationalAndroid@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Empathy is something that is taught. If some kid does not have the ability to have empathy for others, it's likely because they were neglected/abused during childhood, and were not taught such a thing as empathy.

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No, there really are people who are born without the capacity of compassion and empathy. They can learn to mimic it and live by the laws but it needs therapy and people who catch that there is a problem early enough.

It's actually problematic that people immediately jump to the conclusion that the parents did a poor job, because it leads to people not getting adequate help. It also leads to parents not seeking help because they think they just need to be better at parenting when that's often not going to change all that much.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago

Everything said above can be true in parts or at the same time. Obviously, this kid had access to a gun and shouldn't have. Likely, the kid has other problems at home. Possibly, the kid has a neurological divergence that hadn't been fully investigated.

Fuck the parent for not securing the gun. Fuck the school for not showing more caution. Fuck the teacher for getting shot… wait… (/s on the last one, of course)

But also, how can a kindergartener choke an adult to the point they can't breathe? I'd think anyone who isn't elderly could throw a child that age. I probably don't have all the facts about that.

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

But also, how can a kindergartener choke an adult to the point they can’t breathe?

Because when you do not feel for other people you can go all in. Most people are not brutal and even unintentionally hold back against others. It is also really hard to defend against a child if you don't want to hurt the child.

My neighbours kid broke one of his mother's fingers at an age before he went to school (so he must have been 7 years old max). If you do not want to seriously hurt a child, how do you defend yourself when they won't let go?

[-] poppy@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But also, how can a kindergartener choke an adult to the point they can't breathe? I'd think anyone who isn't elderly could throw a child that age.

I wondered this too, and my only (weak) hypothesis is the teacher was too afraid to hurt the child in return before they realized how serious it was going to get. But I’m also not sure how little 5 year old hands would have the strength, unless they used a rope or other tool.

Edit: the article does say the choked teacher is now retired, so they also could have been fairly old.

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[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't rule out lack of empathy also being potentially biological / genetic. Empathy is based on feeling which is based on chemicals and hormones in your body. It wouldn't be impossible to be born with the inability to produce/recognize those chemicals/hormones.

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[-] PunnyName@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago
[-] IrrationalAndroid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I'd like someone more knowledgeable to confirm this, but I remember that kids cannot be diagnosed certain PDs, so I'm not sure that this can really apply to a child. Also, PDs more often than not derive from childhood problems.

[-] SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

This is somewhat true. I'm fairly knowledgeable about this topic (US) im pretty sure Children still cannot be officially diagnosed with a severe personality disorder until usually 14-18 depending on the state and the personality disorder. Usually it's higher age brackets for more "severe" disorders like aspd. Yet weirdly low for add, adhd and odd. Depends mainly on state.

Many problematic children will be diagnosed with both odd and adhd /add at a young age and the moment they "age out" of youth services they'll be immediately diagnosed with aspd or a whole bouquet of other DSM's. This is one of my bigger pet peeves as parents are often left out of the loop pourpousefully simply as there is no "solution" to a child with such issues other than buttloads of money and time.

To add, as someone who has worked with children and children with behavioral issues. In multiple countries and cultures:

We usually know with like 80% certainty by the time the child is I'd say six or seven, roughly what is wrong with any given child, and can give pretty spot on diagnosis between ourselves. We are ofc not allowed to speak with parents regarding most of these issues, that's a 5 minute talk between a child's psychologist and its parents every six months. And Timmy just can't sitt still for more than 20 minutes! It's a disaster! But other than thst he's a little angel!

Also, imagine telling a Karen her precious angel tried stabbed another kid with scissors?

Yeah I fucking stabbed her, I fucking stabbed the lil bitch in the face cause I fucking hate her fucking bitch"

And then two weeks later you almost loose your job, cause surprise. Timmy just stabbed the lil bitch in the FACE with Scissors. I know from the grapevine Timmy is now in a locked mental health juvie. Like. How do I explain. We all knew? All of us who ever worked with him told each other he was going to spend the rest of his life getting bailed out of jail by mommy and daddy, or dead, or 15-life. We knew he was dangerous. Deranged even. Why dosent anyone listen? Parents didn't care, administration didn't care. Hell the only people who seemed to actually care were us and the girls parents. (big and biggest Bitch)

It's this shit + the metal detectors (+admin) that makes people like me charge 100$/h tutoring autistic kids now instead of working 50% and volunteering 50% at local school districts.

I am not a teacher. Just a giant guy who has always been good with kids. (I never stopped being one)

I dont think im intelligent enough to get into the nature vs nurture argument. It's a doozy. My opinion is "why not both" I've seen both sides proven imo, a good nurture just gives you alot more tools to use.

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[-] Cubes@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Correct. ASPD isn't diagnosed until the child is 18. They usually will diagnose them with "conduct disorder" as a minor instead.

[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

After the kindergarten incident the child should've been given a psychiatric evaluation. It is possible he's got a "screw loose" but in the vast majority of cases like this you'll find there's violence in the home. The foster system sucks ass, but in this case rolling the dice probably would've led to a better outcome than leaving him in that home.

[-] iegod@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

The earliest years are where the individual gains their fundamental personality. This kid is toast, no matter what kind of treatment or assistance they receive. They weren't born this way, but they're now done for.

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[-] kn0wmad1c@programming.dev 84 points 1 year ago

This boy choked someone and shot someone else before turning 7. Maybe a psychiatric hospital should be his home.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 23 points 1 year ago

Fucking seriously... This kid has future murderer written all over him... I get that your brain isn't fully developed yet, but I don't think kids like him go from "literally a psychopath" to "normal adult"

A normal kid might do something crazy in a fit of rage or emotion, but then regret what they did when they see the fallout from it. This little psycho boasted about it...

A normal kid doesn't see their father try to murder their mother . . .

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 49 points 1 year ago

Yo, how strong does a kindergartner need to be to be able to choke out a fully grown adult? Wild.

[-] HerrLewakaas@feddit.de 26 points 1 year ago

How deranged does a kid need to be for the system to keep a very close eye on them? Seriously that kid is probably a psychopath who's gonna kill more people if nobody prevents him from doing so

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That or he's badly abused/neglected, and is in need of very serious therapy.

My wife's hometown of like 300 people had a school shooter, and the kid was one of the worst abuse cases I'd ever heard. Tortured, made to live in a closet and eat dog food, shit like that. Ended up shooting the principal while wrestling for the gun (his only victim) and the principal was like the only guy in town who brought the kid food and clothes and stuff (which his parents then "punished" him for receiving). Just an awful situation.

In some ways, this kid acting out so early may save his and others lives, fucked up as it is.

[-] Misconduct@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

It says she's retired so she's probably up there in age. That and probably trying not to hurt him

[-] SwallowsDick@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Bigger boy (for his age) and a smaller woman, especially a kid using all his strength, it can definitely happen.

[-] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 10 points 1 year ago

Especially if you're trying not to hurt them.

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[-] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 31 points 1 year ago

This is why some US Americans want armed teachers ?

To shoot back at 6 year olds ?

[-] PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

They say it's so teachers can protect themselves and their students (from the consequences of failed gun laws) but really, it's just because they have to say something -- and it can't be the truth.

At a civilian level, most of them simply don't care. They're confident it will never be their kids and they consider a stranger's children less important than their own easy access to firearms.

But they can't say that, so they make flowery comments about freedom, defending their family and how they're the ones keeping America out of the hands of tyrants, even though they staunchly support tyrants and wouldn't even wear a mask to protect other people, let alone fight and die for them.

On the corporate and political level, there's good money and easy votes in guns. It's no different to tobacco, asbestos and everything else they fought to profit from even as it killed people.

But they can't say that either. So instead, they coordinate what today's scapegoat is going to be. Computer games? Too many doors? Timid police? Whatever keeps the money flowing.

The important part for all of them is demanding other solutions are tried before gun control. They know they won't work, but it will buy them more time and the more time they waste, the better.

That's why their current solution is "free, universal healthcare for everybody in America, including 5 year olds and people who don't want treatment, done to a standard far beyond even the most cutting edge of medicine, completely and permanently curing people in less time than it takes to buy a gun".

Which they then block anyway, because it's important their conditions for supporting gun control are never met.

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[-] PurpleTentacle@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

Not just teachers: this obviously wouldn't have happened, if all the other students had been armed, too.

The only thing that can stop a bad 6-year-old with a gun is a good 6-year-old with a gun.

[-] Tehgingey@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Bringing whole new level to "Kindergarten Cop" I don't think Arny could have predicted this

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[-] Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

We need to arm all the teachers. And all the students. And all the guns. And all the bullets: they can carry little baby guns with more guns in them.

Only after every atom in the universe is a gun will we ever be safe from guns.

[-] ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 12 points 1 year ago

So two observations, first how is leaving a loaded gun in reach of a 6 year old not more than a misdemeanor? I don't even let my kid near a slingshot or pelet gun unsupervised much less anything lethal.

Second, "choking her to the point she could not breath"? How big is this kid that this is even possible? That's no small feat for a full grown adult if you're talking bare handed much less a young child.

That the kid at that age even thought that was a thing to do says all too much about the influences on them. We need another Mr. Rogers here...

[-] gamer@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Second, “choking her to the point she could not breath”? How big is this kid that this is even possible? That’s no small feat for a full grown adult if you’re talking bare handed much less a young child.

I assume it was an old lady because the article mentions it was a retired teacher. Considering the kid has only been alive 6 years, it probably happened the year prior, so if the teacher was able to retire that soon after, they probably were in their 90s or early hundos

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[-] BeautifulPain@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Screw the kids parents

[-] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Kids psychologically profile the same as a psychopath. This is because kids usually haven't developed their sense of empathy yet.

[-] Bluehood380@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

50th term abortion

[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I wonder if unfettered access to violent media, without parental guidance or context, coupled with a culture of narcissistic whinging about how important guns are for life, with zero structure at home led to this happening.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As a person who grew up with unrestricted access to violent media, I argue against this point.

I was watching violent and bloody films like Blade, Kill Bill, From Dusk Till Dawn around the time I was 5. There are a host of violent games avaliable from that time, too.

I feel like there are two reasons one would seek this type of media out: the aesthetics of violence (there's a reason John Wick has 4 films) and genuine psychopathy, a craving to emulate.

I'd argue very few people have an actual craving to emulate extreme violence, even in an environment saturated with its artificial presentation, and that those people would do so without the access to said saturated media. I blame the parents mostly. It's not the movies that make the attitude for how to treat others, it's how you're shown to treat others in real life

Even as a toddler I understood film was fake

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this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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