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submitted 9 months ago by breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

Thousands took to the streets across Israel Saturday night to call for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's ouster and new elections, in demonstrations spanning from Tel Aviv and Jerusalem to Haifa and Caesarea in the north and Be'er Sheva in the south.

At a demonstration in front of the President's Residence in Jerusalem, Yosef Angel, bereaved father and grandfather of 17-year-old Ofir Angel, who was freed from Hamas captivity in Gaza, said "You stand at the head, and are responsible for the October 7 holocaust. You are trying to escape responsibility and look for someone else to blame, shame on you."

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[-] FenrirIII@lemmy.world 75 points 9 months ago
[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 68 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I appreciate the sentiment, but calling October 7th a "holocaust" causes more problems than it solves. The Israeli propaganda machine has been active as soon as the attack started to make Hamas look worse than they already are (which is still pretty bad to be fair, but not "Holocaust" bad).

Thanks to Israel using people who weren't qualified for the job the numbers will never come to light, but let's not forget that a significant number of IDF civilians were killed by the IDF, not Hamas.

[-] hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net 7 points 9 months ago

It seems like Israelis who disagree with Likud are completely in the propaganda. The "Holocaust" language seems to be their propaganda. To be fair, it was a massive attack that impacted pretty much every Israeli. With something that personal, it's easy to turn around and use the language of the people who are ultimately responsible for this attack in the first place.

[-] Woht24@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Well there were no Israelis during WW2

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[-] xantoxis@lemmy.world 57 points 9 months ago

Jews telling another Jew he did a Holocaust would be pretty impactful against anyone with a conscience

[-] FrowingFostek@lemmy.world 51 points 9 months ago

One state solution. No country gets to dress up in a liberal democracy wig while sporting ethno state raybands. Apartheid states don't get to exist in a functioning democracy.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

I completely agree with your stance on apartheid states, but just so you know, they are called Ray Bans

[-] FrowingFostek@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Thank you for informing me, I don't fashion.

[-] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

The answer is a federal system consisting of at least 3 separate political institutions but nobody who's participating in this conversation anymore really cares about solving the problem..

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Apartheid states don’t get to exist in a functioning democracy.

They shouldn't get to exist. And yet, here we are.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 45 points 9 months ago

Reminder that no babies were burnt in ovens on October 7.

But israeli soldiers did burn a Palestinian child to death in a bakers oven and made his father watch before October 7.

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[-] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 42 points 9 months ago

Remember when Obama called Bibi the biggest liar in the world? Of course that was before Trump rode that escalator.

[-] febra@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Oh no they used the word "Holocaust". The German government will come down on them with their full force for "relativising" the holocaust. These antisemitic jews.

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[-] Crikeste@lemm.ee 5 points 9 months ago

You’re going to call 2000 dead a holocaust, but not the 25000 dead by your own hands. Terrorists.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago
[-] Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Yes, because by doing so you fail to see the big picture. No, it's not "they started it" like a lot of Israeli's like to say, but it's the fact that Israel itself is being taken over by fascists, fundumentalists, billionaires and Netanyahu family. The Israeli people were fighting them the last year trying to prevent the country from becoming a dictatorship.

Oh, and finish with a childish remark... Your comment just copy past a random article, throws a "what about" unrelated to the topic and paint all the Israelis in the same color.

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[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Obviously plenty of people on social media have been shitting on Biden for a while now, perhaps understandably.

But this is why he has to play a delicate and balanced role. He obviously hates Netenyahu and dislikes Israel's government, but he can't push too hard, because it would only help Netenyahu cling on to power a while longer. For example:

After cautious criticism by Biden, Netanyahu rallies Israel’s right wing ... The spat was cheered by Netanyahu’s supporters, who dismiss any calls from Biden or other leaders to pull back from the military assault on Gaza until Hamas has been wiped out as a fighting force.

So although he initially publicly backed Israel 100%, the reason he's now being relatively muted in his criticism of their government, is almost certainly because he wants Netenyahu gone or wants Netenyahu to be forced to create a new coalition with more moderate parties. You know, get rid of those smug thunder cunts Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.

Meanwhile, the US is clearly pushing the two state solution hard behind the scenes. Don't think it's an accident that little America's David Cameron said the UK might recognise Palestine and apparently the US is considering it too, all while doing an intensive tour of the middle-east and negotiating with Israel's neighbours for normalisation.

[-] Squizzy@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago

This is fantasy, he's been vocal of his support for decades and continues to be. He might be quieter but you're giving him a lot of benefit here that has no basis

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I've provided further sources here:

https://kbin.social/m/world@lemmy.world/t/809321/-/comment/4963666

And another user has provided sources here:

https://lemmy.ca/comment/6965014

Please note that Biden not liking Netenyahu or his government, is different to Biden being supportive of the current war cabinet or Israel itself.

There are legitimate reasons to be critical of the US stance on that.

[-] Zorque@kbin.social 22 points 9 months ago

Is it obvious he hates them? Hasn't he been vocally very supportive up until basically election season started? Even for several months while the IDF had been bombing civilians and killing non-combatants indiscriminately he did little more than tell Bibo that he had to be a bit more discrete about his mass-murder while giving them the means to do so.

Words are just that, words. His actions say he supports Israel 100%.

[-] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 11 points 9 months ago

You're wrong. Biden fucking hates the guy (and his government). Democrats do too. Why would they like him? Netanyahu has tied Israel extremely closely and nearly solely to the Republican party. He basically campaigned for Trump. After Biden criticized Israeli settlements in the West Bank, Netanyahu timed the announcement of new settlements to Biden's arrival in Israel just to humiliate him. He did the same thing just hours before his inauguration.

They fought publicly last year with Biden saying that Israel "cannot continue down this road" (about judicial overhaul) with an Israeli diplomat saying that "As long as he is Israel’s prime minister, things are likely to deteriorate.” There have been numerous reports that they have barely spoken and that things have been tense when they have. Biden is reported to have ended that conversation with the never-affectionate "this conversation is over."

They have like 15 years of bad blood between them, personally and politically.

[-] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

I don't think ppl care too much about whether or not they're best pals. It's the fact Biden is selling them weapons and trying to get congress to give them 14 billion in aid

[-] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

OP's comment was about Biden trying to undermine and weaken Netanyahu because he hates him.

This is what I replied to:

Is it obvious he hates them? Hasn't he been vocally very supportive up until basically election season started?

He wasn't providing vocal weapons, was he? Shipments of military-grade fuck-words, perhaps?

Care about whatever you want but the fact that there's decades of evidence that they despise each other seems relevant.

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Here's an article from before the Hamas attacks:

The White House has finally invited Benjamin Netanyahu to visit the US after months of snubbing the Israeli prime minister over his government’s creeping annexation of the West Bank and deepening oppression of the Palestinians.

And another one:

President Biden bluntly warned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that he “cannot continue down this road” ... he touched off the kind of response usually expressed by America’s adversaries rather than its allies. ... “Israel is a sovereign country which makes its decisions by the will of its people and not based on pressures from abroad, including from the best of friends,” Mr. Netanyahu said on Wednesday, accusing the U.S. president of meddling in another country’s politics — which is exactly what Mr. Biden was intending to do. It was a remarkably public outbreak of the kind of disagreement that usually takes place in private. But there were other factors at work that had been brewing for many years.

And here's another relevant article:

Biden understands that Netanyahu’s position is a precarious one. His governing coalition received just 48.4 percent of the vote, and took power only because of a quirk of the Israeli electoral system. The coalition relies on an alliance of unpopular far-right parties to stay afloat, whom Netanyahu must appease to remain in office. Biden has exploited this weakness and repeatedly poked at it. Rather than directly confronting Netanyahu, he has called out his extremist partners and in this way heightened the contradictions within Netanyahu’s coalition, undermining its stability and gradually eroding its support in the polls. In July, Biden told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria that Netanyahu’s government has “the most extremist members of cabinets that I’ve seen” in Israel ... This was Biden’s approach in action: criticizing Israel during wartime in front of a pro-Israel crowd, and doing so in a way that nonetheless denied Netanyahu any opening. As long as it’s Biden versus Ben-Gvir, rather than Biden versus Bibi, the president holds the upper hand. ... Biden has brought the same strategy to bear on the issue of settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, which has accelerated under the cover of Israel’s campaign in Gaza. Netanyahu’s coalition is unable to clamp down on these extremists and their terrorism because it is beholden to these extremists. But most Israelis have no desire to mortgage the security of Israel and its indispensable relationship to the United States in favor of some far-flung hilltop settlers in West Bank regions that few Israelis could locate on a map. Knowing this, Biden has begun unrolling a series of unilateral measures intended to raise the price of settler violence and pit Netanyahu and his allies against the Israeli public.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/biden-netanyahu-geopolitics-israel-hamas-war/676357/

Proper nasty politics, keep your enemies closer, and backstabbing basically.

People think Biden's this old incompetent coot, but there's a reason he's been around for decades. He's a piece of work, for better or for worse, and knows how the game is played.

[-] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 months ago

Here's an archive link to that Atlantic piece, which is a really interesting read.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

No one forced him to circumvent congress twice to support Netanyahu's genocide. No one was clamoring for it, and no one would have blamed him if he hadn't.

"Trust us, we're totally doing what you want, silently and invisibly, behind the scenes"

[-] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 months ago
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this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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