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[-] Zorque@kbin.social 80 points 8 months ago

Isn't the staying power of Toyota vehicles their build quality and longevity, not their cheapness? Wouldn't this be a Kia killer?

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Definitely. I would be surprised if this car maker can compete toe to toe with Toyota on quality but they can slay when it comes to price.

[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

They took off because they were maintainable, reliable, and cheap. All three attributes were important for them to disrupt the space.

[-] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 8 months ago

It is now, but not when they started taking over back in the 1980's. They started off by being cars that were cheaper. Their prices rose as they started to get a positive name for themselves.

I remember Kia coming into the US market with a somewhat similar playback, but they entered back when many other makers weren't having poor quality/lifespan vehicles. Mid 90's kias were cheap as snot so they got some sales. But it didn't bode well for them as people started to notice they weren't built to last very long, and then they started to go bankrupt (Korean financial crisis) and Hyundai bought them/bailed them out. Then they still stayed cheap as snot in the US, but gradually improved in quality. As they started getting a slightly better name for themselves they'd keep upping the price and keep upping the quality. Nowadays they aren't much cheaper at all than a lot of manufacturers, but they also aren't much behind in quality, either. Had they been able to enter the US market a decade sooner, they could have really had a leg up.

[-] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

This says the opposite. The pre 1983 Toyotas were more reliable. Toyota made their name in the 70's and by the 80's started cost cutting.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/curbside-classic-1975-toyota-hilux-pickup/

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Toyota and Lexus is still one of the most reliable cars out there today. I've got multiple Toyota cars and trucks and all have over 200k miles now. Two of my supras have over 250k and the tundra and LC both have almost 300k miles on them.

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/most-least-reliable-cars-and-car-brands-according-to-consumer-reports#gid=ci02b0e590400025f0&pid=24-toyota-brand-toyota-

They've been top the reliable brand for a long time now.

Hell the Hilux is the unkillable truck for the Middle East for the last 40ish years.

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[-] Lugh@futurology.today 70 points 8 months ago

The Chinese automaker BYD reminds me of the famous phrase attributed to the sci-fi writer William Gibson - "The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed."

Future EV cars will be cheap to own and run. Self-driving tech will lower insurance costs. You can charge them with your home solar setup if you want. They'll last far longer with lower maintenance costs thanks to simple electric engines with few moving parts. As their construction gets more roboticized it will lower their costs further. The batteries that make up a huge chunk of their current costs are falling in price too. CATL, the world’s largest EV battery maker, is set to cut costs in half by mid 2024.

Some people still think gasoline and ICE cars have a long life ahead of them, and don't realize the industries behind both are dead men walking.

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 36 points 8 months ago

If future means public subsidies, I'm all for it.

Chinese EVs are cheaper because they are prepaid by Chinese tax payers. That also includes taxes levied from our internet purchases for products made in China.

[-] DdCno1@kbin.social 23 points 8 months ago

The secret ingredient is ~~crime~~ slave labor.

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

hired by the west in droves

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[-] sadreality@kbin.social 11 points 8 months ago

We in the US would never provide a corporation with state aid!!!
RHEEEE

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[-] Grimy@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

The whole industry lives off subsidies, regardless of the type or where they are manufactured.

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[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 20 points 8 months ago

...the sci-fi writer William Gibson...

For those who dont know:

If the quote sounds very cyberpunk (techno futuristic corporate dystopia) it is because William Gibson is the father of the cyberpunk genre.

[-] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago

And did it by boldly having no understanding of computers at the time which is why all the tech is so different from a lot of other scifi. I recently got through my decade long Asimov kick and am slowly working through Gibson now

[-] MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago

I’m an ev fan but I don’t agree that they have more longevity than ICE cars. The current battery chemistries simply don’t allow for it.

Either battery chemistries with 20 years of guaranteed performance would have to be developed, or battery replacement and refurbishment costs will need to come down to say the cost of replacing a head gasket.

This will eventually happen, but current generation of EVs are essentially a recyclable consumable compared to their ICE counterparts.

[-] bluGill@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

Current cars are not scrap because of the moving parts. It is rust on the body that kills them.

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[-] alyth@lemmy.world 64 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

“Today, most buyers want a good, solid reliable car that has some nice features and doesn’t cost too much,” he wrote.

Wow a car manufacturer that finally speaks some sense.

[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

And that isn't connected to the Internet please

[-] yannic@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago

...and no subscription fees.

[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 61 points 8 months ago

If this makes it to American shores they will not be able to keep up with demand.

I do not think this will ever make it to the USA.

[-] Kadaj21@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

Thought i read somewhere that BYD or another manufacturer was looking to build manufacturing in Mexico to take advantage of the NAFTA agreement…. If that’s the case then it’s a question of them meeting US standards. I just remember the hilariously bad crash tests where that cars were the crumple zones.

[-] gaael@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

I thought there were no standards for car manufacturing in the US (isn't that the reason Muskrat is able to sell the trucks without crash-testinh them ?)

[-] Not_mikey@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

There are no standards for hitting pedestrians, who don't exist in the u.s. There are plenty for car on car collisions cause that's all that matters.

[-] gaael@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Thank you for clarifying :)

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[-] shininghero@kbin.social 16 points 8 months ago

If I can get easy replacement parts access and a Hayne's manual for one of these, I'm all for it. I have both of those for my current car, along with a full toolbox for basic mechanic work.

[-] sadreality@kbin.social 26 points 8 months ago

Seeing EU and US auto maker get bent out of shape at the idea of having to compete on price... they want the state to step in to protect their captured market. clown capitalism for ya.

And before we start talking chinese state aid for their EV industry, let's not forget that we also provide state aid to our daddies of the industry and they still punk us on price 🤡🤡🤡

[-] metaStatic@kbin.social 11 points 8 months ago

I'm buying up vhs-c and hi8 camcorders and so many end user manuals have fucking schematics, parts lists, circuit diagrams, pcb layouts, timing charts, ...

I'm old enough to remember owning things but never really to the extent you could build a whole new one from scratch and I don't think those days are coming back, especially with the voltages involved in EVs

[-] lemming741@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Inverters and drivers are so tightly integrated, it's out of reach for hobbyist, you'd have to be a full on EE to build one.

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[-] bloopernova@programming.dev 13 points 8 months ago

I want an electric Subaru Outback or Forester. Something that can be driven off road to a campground, pull a trailer if needed, and has enough range to get me from Ann Arbor to the upper peninsula with minimal charging. Seats and trunk that I can hose out after a muddy dog park excursion would be great too.

[-] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's going to be a little while before we get realistic options for outdoorsy uses of BEVs. If you want the range to get there AND get back (or even just to a charger) then they're too dang heavy for offroad use. If you want to pull a camper, then the range absolutely tanks.

Airstream is trying to address this by making a $120,000 (lol) camper that has its own battery and traction motors to assist the pulling vehicle. I think its a pretty good idea but of course they're going to lock it down in patents for 20 years and prevent anyone from offering something affordable.

Maybe we'll get lucky an a revolutionary battery technology like those frequently talked about glass batteries will come out and just outperform the status quo by every metric.

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[-] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Aren't there already electric SUVs that would do all of that?

[-] ewe@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Not for the cost of a Subaru Outback, i think.

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[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

Subaru is launching the hybrid Forester this year. Might be something to consider.

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[-] hark@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Tariffs on Chinese vehicles in the US are 25+%, but even with that, this would be a bargain. I'm sure there'd be even more costs added bringing it over, but if it can stay under $30k, I think it'd sell a lot, especially if it's closer to $25k or less.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago

I'm curious how much a similar vehicle would be in North America. Could BYD import it directly?

[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 18 points 8 months ago

It would be considerably more expensive. Safety standards are much higher in Western countries. Also, they still need to build up a sales and maintenance organisation there, that takes a lot of capital. It'll be interesting to see where they land in their price points, though.

[-] alansuspect@aussie.zone 8 points 8 months ago

BYD sells their cars in Australia and we have high safety standards, I don't think they'd need to change much for the US

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[-] canis_majoris@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They would build them in Mexico due to the cheap labour (much like the majority of legacy automakers already do) and ship them up North and South.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago

Just wait until you learn its cloud based

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[-] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Given the rough relationship between the US and China and the potential national security risks, I highly doubt this will ever make its way into the US. May make its way to Europe though.

[-] CptEnder@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Already there. They also own the former UK manufacturer Morris Garages (MG) which have made some semi popular models recently, including EVs.

MG6

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this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2024
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