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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by duderium@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/putins-war-vanishing-goals

Hey libs, make sure to do the reading before you start arguing with communists 😉

You know your enemy is losing when he occupies a third of your territory and most of your productive capacity. Ukraine will be de-nazified and de-militarized when all the Nazis there have committed suicide by charging Russian artillery in open fields. And no, not every Ukrainian is a Nazi, but the government is certainly run by Nazis.

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[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago

I mean, its undeniably a shit show for the entire region. Russia isn't coming out of this a winner, as they exhausted enormous physical and labor to tentatively secure an extra buffer of land to the west. This is nothing like the occupation of Crimea or Georgia, where they were in and out over a couple of weeks, uncontested.

But the full court press by western states has been equally disastrous. Western military resources have proved far less effective than promised. The Miracle Military Tech doesn't work nearly as well as we claimed. Half of NATO has basically admitted they are neither prepared for nor inclined to fight another global war. The whole continent is seeing a massive upsurge in domestic conflicts, fascist movements, and economic problems. And now what remains of the European colonial project is once again crumbling away from them.

Ukraine will be de-nazified and de-militarized when all the Nazis there have committed suicide by charging Russian artillery in open fields.

No it won't. The fascists running the war in Ukraine are very different than the dumb kids recruited to pound out land mines with their feet. They'll keep suckering in new cadres of young people with promises of God, Glory, and Gold. And Russian mortar fire will continue to turn the rich black-earth fields of Ukraine into a blood soaked hell.

Nobody is winning. Nobody benefits.

[-] Deadend@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

Cluster Munitions manufacturing is winning. As are small arms suppliers.

The western governments have dropped billions on buying weapons.

The goal is now to have a simmering forever war, as it’s good for the economy.

[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

The goal is now to have a simmering forever war

We had that in Iraq and Afghanistan and it just burned through our military labor force. Ukraine won't last longer than the US did oversees. And the surrounding states aren't exactly overflowing with pro-American sentiment, the longer this shit drags on, either.

[-] Owl@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Private military contractors benefited greatly during Iraq and Afghanistan, though.

[-] alcoholicorn@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

it’s good for the economy

It's good for allocating money from the workers to raytheon shareholders.

It still makes America poorer overall. For what we spent blowing up Ukraine, we could have 16,000 miles of high speed rail.

[-] MoreAmphibians@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

It's good for allocating money from the workers to raytheon shareholders.

That's what he said, good for the economy.

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

The fascists running the war in Ukraine are very different than the dumb kids recruited to pound out land mines with their feet. They'll keep suckering in new cadres of young people with promises of God, Glory, and Gold. And Russian mortar fire will continue to turn the rich black-earth fields of Ukraine into a blood soaked hell.

Zelensky sacking all his recruiters across the country suggests to me that they’re having trouble finding people. I can’t remember where I read this, but someone wrote somewhere that a factor in the October Revolution was the way that most of the tsarists in the military had already gotten themselves killed by charging German machine guns basically with their bare hands for years. This left nobody in the army except the liberals and the communists (and the tsarist officers).

Nobody is winning. Nobody benefits.

Contradictions in the global north (especially between the USA and France) are breathing new life into anti-colonial movements in West Africa. There are also intensifying contradictions between virulently Russophobic Eastern European (American puppet) states versus Western European states which just want cheap Russian oil and natural gas to power their economies. As various countries around the world smell blood in the water regarding the USA and NATO, they start reconsidering the seeming invulnerability of the West. By joining organizations like BRICS, the collapse of the dollar and the possibility of the end of the period of European colonization which began in 1492 (or even earlier with the first Portuguese slave raids in North Africa) becomes possible.

[-] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh my fucking god, the absolute all-time favorite thing for liberals to do in this war is to give Putin goals that at no point he expressed, and then say that he failed to complete them. It's really painful copium to watch as NATO's famed military equipment is ground into scrap metal at alarming speeds. Genuinely gives me second hand embarrassment for them at this point.

So fucking many headlines and opinion pieces and comments smugly saying "Putin planned to take Kiev in a week, the whole of Ukraine in a month, and then move on to the rest of Eastern Europe after that. His disastrous miscalculation is evidence that he is an utterly incompetent military leader." It really betrays their embarrassing lack of knowledge of anything military, because completing these goals isn't even remotely possible anyway. If Putin conquered an area the size of Ukraine in a month then he would be, bar none, the greatest military leader of all time.

When you ask where he stated these goals, they usually say something like "It's obvious that this was his plan, the goals he gave at the outset are just cover for them," if they even know about Putin's speech at all. Given how talented these people are at reading Putin's mind, you'd have thought that maybe they could use this power to discover the make-up of Russia's military and current defenses. The two months of "probing attacks" would have been entirely unnecessary if you'd have just gotten these experts on the case!

What it all ends up doing is creating a set of talismanic phrases for liberals to repeat themselves, as if they were warding spells against the coming evil darkness. "Russia's failed in Ukraine and strengthened NATO! Russia's failed in Ukraine and strengthened NATO! The power of Christ compels you! Russia's failed in Ukraine and strengthened NATO!" Are these statements actually verified, beyond articles by failson journalists in the Washington Post? Has anybody done the actual math as to whether discrediting the Patriot system as a functional air defense system, the Leopards as good, Western drones as good, and soon F-16s, is worth getting Sweden and potentially Finland in to NATO, both countries that already had extensive military ties with America? Has the long-term damage to NATO's reputation as having a colossal and effective military and the draining of ammunition warehouses really worth it? Silly leftist, we don't need to inspect those things! Now, get in the sorcerer circle and chant with us: "We've defeated Russia with only 3% of our military costs! We've defeated Russia with only 3% of our military costs! Patriots can shoot down hypersonic missiles, despite being significantly slower than them, through the power of Western superiority! Patriots can shoot down hypersonic missiles, despite being significantly slower than them, through the power of Western superiority!"

"Oh, I bet we're making that Putler so mad! Is any of it true? It doesn't matter, what matters is the reality that we have collectively invented, because our family members aren't the ones dying en masse, only those disposable Ukrainians!"

This article by Responsible Statecraft (Western source, anti-Russia, they literally advocate for sending more weapons to Ukraine in the article, not Putler Kremlin propaganda disinformation) says it best:

No matter how the war ends, Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has created the very outcome he most wanted to prevent: a thriving anti-Russian, pro-Western democracy, armed to the teeth with American weaponry, destined at a minimum to become a de facto ally of Washington, if not an official member of the NATO alliance.

Or so it is thought in Washington and other Western capitals. But, with the sole exception of Ukraine’s deepening and quite understandable revulsion toward Russia, it is much closer to wishful thinking than to reality.

...

In stating publicly that Ukraine will become a NATO member, but only after the war is concluded, the Biden administration has perversely incentivized Russia to make sure the war does not end, at least not officially. The Kremlin need not wage the war at current levels of intensity to achieve that goal. The mere threat that a wave of Russian missile strikes might destroy a new housing project or a recently rebuilt bridge will discourage investors from providing the hundreds of billions of dollars that Ukraine needs for reconstruction.

[-] duderium@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago
[-] w00tabaga@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago
[-] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago
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[-] ItsPequod@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty lazy, but here's a comprehensive source for you

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[-] duderium@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago
[-] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago

they dont have reliable sources to promote honest discussion. all they have are cliche one-liners that they think make them look confidently intelligent

in reality they look like this: smuglord

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[-] panopticon@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah I like reading true stories as well bro, glad they posted it

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this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse

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