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submitted 5 months ago by kescusay@lemmy.world to c/nottheonion@lemmy.world

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Hi everyone,

News is weird. When it's weird enough, it reads like articles from The Onion, and that's what we're all about. But as the community grows, there's more and more content being posted here that just isn't very Onion-y.

Jimmy Carter Becomes Second President Convicted Of Felony For Sticking Up Waffle House

Take a look at that headline from The Onion today. Or this one:

World Series Of Poker Entrants Play One Hand Face-Up So Everyone Can Learn Rules

Or this one:

New Hormone-Free IUD Wards Off Sperm With Steady Emission Of Police-Grade Pepper Spray

That's the flavor we're going for. We want real, credible news articles with headlines that read like they're from The Onion.

This is not the community for:

Non-Onion-y political news (it's gotta be absurd enough to look Onion-y)
Non-Onion-y regular news (it's gotta be absurd enough to look Onion-y)
Satire (it's gotta be actual news)
Fake news from fly-by-night "news" sites (again, it's gotta be actual news)

That means not every ridiculous thing a politician does qualifies as appropriate content here.

I need your help, though... I need people to report content that just isn't Onion-y, and I need people to try not to post non-Onion-y content in the first place.

Finally, I need help moderating, so this is also a formal call for new mods! Post below if you think you're ready to take on moderation for one of the larger Lemmy communities! Tell me why you'd like to mod, and link to a news story from any time (it doesn't have to be current) that has a properly Onion-y headline, to show that you really get this community.

I'll pick two people to become new moderators for the community from participants. Good luck!

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[-] Nougat@fedia.io 58 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This is not the community for ... Non-Onion-y political news (it's gotta be absurd enough to look Onion-y)

You know full well that so much political news is Onion-y now.

Maybe the Onionton Window has shifted.

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 47 points 5 months ago

I mean, I'm not gonna dispute that reality has been resembling The Onion more and more, but it's important that the headlines convey that Onion-y goodness, and too many lately haven't or are really borderline. People come here to say to themselves, "Holy shit, I can't believe that's a real headline!" Not "Holy shit... now I'm depressed. Oh, and that headline... is depressing."

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 38 points 5 months ago

To be fair, I mainly commented above to use the phrase "Onionton Window."

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago

I knew it!

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Let’s pretend these articles are real:

https://www.theonion.com/u-s-army-recruiter-has-bound-gagged-civilian-that-tee-1851482590

https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315

Is that not depressing? Depressing news can be Onion-y. I just pulled 2 examples from today’s front page, as you did.

The issue here seems everyone has a different take on what it means to be Onion-y. You mention it can’t be depressing, someone else said it has to subvert expectations, etc. Yet, there are counter-examples for those things from The Onion itself. Again, my point is that “what is Onion-y?” Is an incredibly subjective question. I’d encourage a broad answer to that question when you’re moderating.

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

You do raise some valid points, but the problem here is that if we go that route, we might as well rename this community from "Not The Onion" to "Politics But Focused Mostly On Hypocrisy".

I don't think most of the people in this community want this to be a politically-focused community to the exclusion of everything else. We don't want every article on the front page to be yet another "Trump did/said something hypocritical again." That's not Onion-y.

[-] HelloHotel@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Only problem, the artiles you posted portray the us government as a comic book villan. The onion has a cartoonyness that stuff like this post doesnt.

[-] Today@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Maybe poster needs to include a brief comment on why the post seems uniony?

[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 30 points 5 months ago

Thank you for taking the steps needed to get more mods :)

[-] collapse_already@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 months ago

When everything is Onion-y, nothing is. I see a lot of headlines these days that I wish were fiction/satire.

[-] thisisdee@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

Tangentially related, is there a community with weird/absurd news that’s not quite oniony?

[-] DxK@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 5 months ago

!Offbeat@lemmy.ca has you covered!

[-] Spedwell@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

Spin up c/notquitetheonion?

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 5 points 5 months ago

I have put a list in the sidebar at !andfinally@feddit.uk - there may not be one that ticks all the boxes but if you want some weird news in your feed mixing a couple in might do the trick. As Lemmy doesn't do algorithms we have to curate our own feeds with something from column A and something else from column B until you have your own bespoke smorgasbord.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The idea behind this community should be that you think “wait, really? Is that serious or satire?” when you see the story. With all due respect, I disagree with some of the recent removals. Here are 4 examples:

Removed Post Trump brands US a ‘fascist state’ in 40-minute rant amid wild scenes outside his Manhattan home

Did Trump accuse other people of fascism? That’s absurd because he’s a fascist.

Removed Post Kansas Constitution does not include a right to vote, state Supreme Court majority says

This is lunacy, why would a constitution not guarantee basic rights? Reads like a joke about conservatives.

Removed Post Erdogan: Netanyahu is a ‘psychopath’ and a ‘vampire that feeds on blood’

This one is close but it’s still hilarious because it’s a “pot calls kettle black” situation. It does utilize antisemetic tropes though.

Removed Post Penn should do more to combat anti-Jewish bias on campus and reissue a statement opposing divestment from Israel, a university task force says

Really? The school should be doing the opposite. It reads like a joke mocking out of touch boomers.

Granted, that’s maybe 4 of the 25 most recent removed posts but I think they all have Onion-y elements. I’d just advise caution, especially when you’re adding new mods who might not have much experience. I’m not saying you’re doing a bad job moderating but I’d be careful of caving to light pressure from users. I get bad reports all the time (the majority of reports I get as a mod are not accurate).

Edit: the thing about satire and humor is that it is subjective. Not everyone will think a joke is funny and not everyone will think satire is funny because they’ll claim it’s too close to reality.

Edit again: just for transparency, 2 of the 4 I’ve shared are my posts. I’ve had other posts deleted that were appropriate deletions. I don’t want this to come off as me bitching about my posts getting deleted.

[-] FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world 21 points 5 months ago

A lot of these should be onion-y, but are not because the bar is so low. Trump being hypocritical? That's to be expected. It can't be onion-y because it doesn't subvert expectations in any way.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Do these onion articles subvert any expectations?

https://www.theonion.com/advisors-assure-biden-this-will-blow-over-once-all-gaza-1851452315

https://www.theonion.com/new-florida-law-requires-all-women-to-produce-3-healthy-1851482288

https://www.theonion.com/trump-boys-attempt-to-bribe-juror-with-briefcase-full-o-1851509590

The 3 topics are: Trump’s team engages in bribery, Flrodia attacks women, and Biden allows the Gaza genocide. How do those things subvert expectations? Quite the opposite, they play off the obvious

Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire

Satire is a genre of the visual, literary, and performing arts, usually in the form of fiction and less frequently non-fiction, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, often with the intent of exposing or shaming the perceived flaws of individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement

Satire does not require subversion of expectations

[-] FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Biden doesn't generally say the quiet part out loud, so that's the joke. The specificity of the Florida law is what's funny, not the fact that they make backwards, misogynist laws. The briefcase is also too on the nose. We know they bribe people, but that headline is slapstick comedy.

It's a fine line, admittedly, but those headlines do read like jokes to me.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Ok? That's still not a subversion of expectations

[-] FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Expectation: "Biden funds Israeli war efforts" The subversion is that the Onion title reads between the lines, ignoring normal journalistic nothing-speak to say the quiet part out loud. These each hint at a bit of actual truth, but rather than simply being outlandish (which is our current baseline), these Onion titles all add something to name it now ridiculous. A bribe in child snacks? The bribe is what's expected. The snacks are the unexpected, making the whole thing funny.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Subvert expectations /= saying something unexpected. If your point is the Onion has unexpected takes, then I’ll buy that.

[-] FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

It means that there's an expected setup, then a twist. Trump' sons engaged in bribery? Check. It's easy to believe. The subversion happens when we get to the method of payment. We expected unmarked bills or a fraudulent wire transfer, but we got children's snacks, which reframes the whole situation as if they're two kids in a trenchcoat.

If you remember Rudy Giuliani giving a speech at a landscaping company parking lot, you may remember hilarious news titles referencing the Four Seasons. They were particularly Onion-y, because we expected Rudy Giuliani to spew lies at a press conference, which often happens in hotel conference centers. The Four Seasons hotel would be a reasonable place for the whole thing to go down. He probably announced the location, then found out he couldn't book the hall. Making lies about the election in the Four Seasons Landscaping parking lot across from a sex toy store? Hilarious. It sounds like comedy, but it's reality.

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

I don't think any of those examples look like onion headlines. They're ridiculous but not headlines they'd use.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

And that pretty much proves my point about subjectivity. You don’t think so yet other commenters agreed with me. Everyone on here has a different hot take on what “Onion-y” means, largely based on their expectations, not reality. Moderators should lean towards leaving up posts because it’s such a subjective decision.

[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 6 points 5 months ago

Honestly I'd rather mods set a bit of a higher bar, as it otherwise devolves into just a "weird news" community. I would prefer the community is more distinct. Headlines like "Trump says ridiculous thing" has a tendency to get upvoted from people just seeing the headline without considering whether it fits the community.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Again, I agree with the majority of the deletions. As I said, I pulled 4 of the most recent 20.

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

No offense intended here but it doesn't look like many people agreed with you. I agree that it's fairly subjective but the examples you gave were headlines we expect in 2024. They're weird and sad but not absurd in today's world

Communities with lax posting rules become homogenous with similar communities. It happens every time - I don't want this place to become another catch-all weird news sub

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Currently, I'm sitting at 10 upvotes and 9 downvotes. Again, my point is that there is no agreement. The votes, in my opinion, demonstrate that.

[-] Paragone@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

Whereas I think every one of them looks oniony.

Maybe I'm just remembering too many Mad Magazines from back in the day, though..

[-] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 12 points 5 months ago

I agree with you on the first 3. I can see why someone would disagree with #1, but the middle 2 are definitely very onion-y. They're pretty similar to the "Putin wins 112% of the vote" headline on The Onion's YouTube channel.

[-] candybrie@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Did you really wonder if the first was satire? It is 0% surprising when Trump accuses others of what he does.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Did I wonder? No, it was on a legit news site. But Trump throwing a temper tantrum and calling other people names can be (and more importantly, has been) the topic of Onion articles

[-] candybrie@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

You're the one who set that as the bar.

The idea behind this community should be that you think “wait, really? Is that serious or satire?”

I don't think anyone at this point would even do a double take to check "is this from a satire news source?" if they happened to see it shared in a context that makes the source not immediately known (e.g. on lemmy). At this point, The Onion headlines involving Trump tend to veer into total ridiculousness (Trump killing Cohen with a pen, bribing people with pb&j, etc). The only way you can do subtlety involving him is things that are totally out of character, like anything with self awareness or acknowledgement of rigging things in his favor.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 0 points 5 months ago

Removed Post Kansas Constitution does not include a right to vote, state Supreme Court majority says

This is lunacy, why would a constitution not guarantee basic rights? Reads like a joke about conservatives.

That was one of mine (and I have another pending, as an Admin I get to see reports for users of my instance, including me) and it's removal is fair enough as Mods have to be allowed to set the remit of their community and prune content accordingly. As long as they aren't abusing their powers, which is not the case here.

As I've reported another post on here for rule 4 violation, it would also be a bit hypocritical of me to complain.

As another comment suggests, perhaps start c/notquitetheonion on here or (preferably) another general instance (spread the love and the load) for things that don't quite make the grade here - if they are deleted an Admin can still fish them out of the Modlog and repost them if needed. It would likely help this community by diverting things that don't meet the standard of inclusion.

[-] Aphelion@lemm.ee -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

~~But your example of not Onion-y enough was published by the Onion themselves. Articles from The Onion are now not Onion-y material?~~

I'm confused and want more coffee.

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

Those were examples of actual Onion headlines to serve as guidelines for the headlines that would fit well here. But yeah, actual Onion articles wouldn't fit here, because... This is Not The Onion.

So... Please drink some coffee.

[-] Aphelion@lemm.ee 11 points 5 months ago

Yes, I did in fact need that coffee, and now I totally get it. Appreciate your patience.

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

No worries. I'm utterly incapable of basic logic until I get my coffee.

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

(edit: two terrible autocorrect mistakes)
Someone needs to post this to c/nottheonion:

Mod for c/nottheonion declares articles from The Onion are now not Onion-y enough

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

I'll allow it.

this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024

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Not The Onion

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Welcome

We're not The Onion! Not affiliated with them in any way! Not operated by them in any way! All the news here is real!

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Links to news stories from...
...credible sources, with...
...their original headlines, that...
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