I run fedia.io. I also run Infosec.pub. Which is lemmy so I know a lot about both. Lemmy is much more robust, but I personally find the interface for Mbin much nicer and the development of it seems to be headed in a direction I like better than that of lemmy. At least for now.
Jerry ... admin of many instances!
the development of it seems to be headed in a direction I like better than that of lemmy
Just curious what sorts of things you have in mind here ... it's been a while since I used a k/mbin platform? (I was on kbin.social, RIP, hopefully it returns).
Mbin is very community oriented in it's development, collective decision-making and all that. Lemmy is more subject to the ideas of it's creators, for better or for worse.
Thanks for answering! Nothing against fedia, after all I'm posting from here, just asked out of curiosity.. would've been fun if the local magazines were somewhat more active. Though I guess there lies the fediverse's strength, of being able to post and read in this collection for example.
There’s a reason for that. About a year ago, Reddit started to implode. I set up Infosec.pub and Fedia to give people an alternative. There was a huge influx of people here creating all sorts of magazines, the same that you would see on Reddit. Fedia ran kbin at the time and it had all manner of problems, and over time people sort of wandered away. Either because they were tired of the problems or because they went back to Reddit.
In any event, what we see in the local magazines is the remnants of that initial migration. I really need to go and clean them up.
Now that Fedia is on mbin, things are much better. We still have issues now and then, but generally things work well.
Thanks for this! I escaped Reddit to Kbin.social to Kbin.run, and now landed at Fedia.io. I need to reconstruct some of the communities I started on the previous two. And will soon. It's just gotten a bit busy IRL.
An offtopic but federation is not working on fedia.io right now.
I fixed it a few hours ago, but it takes a while to catch up.
From a moderator perspective it seems essential to have a microblogging section, because otherwise people make entire posts for simple questions or personal achievements. That plagues Reddit, drags down the whole site.
I still think it's missing something though, streaming video service support. Mbin's idea of combining known socials works great in that respect. Text and image, but needs video support. P2P maybe, no storage needed.
Simply by choosing a lesser used fedi software you're helping keep the fediverse from being dictated by a single software's whims. So that's a big plus there. Federation issues with kbin/mbin/azorius/other lesser used instance software will inevitably happen as people only test against the largest player in the field (in the ""threadiverse"" that's Lemmy, in the microblogging fedi that's Mastodon). So simply by not picking the largest you're, even if in a small way, helping not only mbin but all the lesser used fedi software as a whole.
Your own local communities being "dead" mainly boils down to communities themselves having a network effect around them where the largest one keeps growing larger as everyone focuses on it. And the largest communities are usually on lemmy.world (or occasionally other Lemmy instances). There isn't that much you can do there.
In my experience, it's always the smaller software that innovate. The same is true in the microblogging fedi (emoji reactions, quote posts, markdown, nomadic identity, reply permissions) just as it's true in the ""threadiverse"" (combining communities together, the ability to follow people, polls apparently (?)).
So really, don't worry about the size of your own instance's communities. As long as you trust your instance's staff to keep you safe there's no real reason not to get on a smaller instance, or on different software. Especially on here, where "discoverability" is not as much of an issue as it is in the microblogging fedi.
Great arguments, thank you!
Better UI & UX. As long as federation works it does not matter whether they are Lemmy communities or mbin magazines. So, why use Lemmy when you can make use of the same communities on mbin?
At least earlier there have been quite a few problems with federation not working between KBin and Lemmy, posts and comments not syncing. It does seem better now but at the same time it's hard to know if you're missing a few comments or threads or whatnot.
Kbin’s issues stemmed from lack of upkeep. Ernest is a good dude who did his best but he was truly a one-person operation and it showed over time. Mbin doesn’t have those issues.
A lot of the major federation issues in kbin were already fixed on mbin. Also, there were at least two major federation issues caused by Lemmy updates, which had nothing to do with kbin nor mbin and affected Lemmy instances accordingly as well. Of course, new issues can arise, but that also goes for Lemmy, or even just ActivityPub in general. But overall federation seems to be working fairly well right now.
More options is better
If those options are functional, otherwise focus on making some of them functional.
There is definitely a LOT of half ass activity pub projects floating around. Everyone wants to start a new thing, but few people want to mature and maintain something someone else started.
We need more people doing the latter. We don’t need another half-finished client. We have those in spades.
I prefer being on instances with fewer users anyway - it feels a bit more personal. So more users on the larger Lemmy instances is not really an argument in my book.
I like the user experience on Lemmy and Mbin more. Another thing I like about Mbin is being able to boost posts and interact with the greater Fediverse more.
I like the performance of PieFed. It also works without JavaScript, which is nice some times.
What I like about this place is that we can all be on different platforms if we want to - there's no such thing as there not being enough people around to support all the platforms, as they're not competing for users. I'm happy whatever platform the people I interact with use - the important thing is that I can interact with them. :)
Thank you for mentioning Pie Fed, I neverd heard of it until now, but looks great. Clean code, intro video for developers, db structure exolained. Really friendly for new contributors, quite refreshing.
I really like the user experience as well, and @rimu@piefed.social is great at including the community in its development and keeping an open dialogue. It's a great project.
At risk of answering a question with a question... Is there a drawback to using mbin? Are there certain ways that it makes interacting with Lemmy awkward or difficult, or is it essentially just another interface? There are lots of frontends for the threadiverse - Lemmy UI is just one.
I know that mbin has additional features on the backend, but is there something you are missing out on?
Just to be clear, mbin is not just another frontend but a completely different software (including the backend side of it). Like Lemmy it uses activitypub to communicate with Lemmy but also with Mastodon.
https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin There's a few different instance lists at the bottom if you want to browse around and check the settings and stuff.
What ultimately caused kbin to shut down?
Single developer prioritised his life over supporting an increasingly complex project, I think
He had some health issues iirc, and frankly people got really pushy about a thing they don't even pay for. I don't blame him for stopping development.
and frankly people got really pushy about a thing they don’t even pay for
He doesn't owe anyone anything, and he can decide to run his open source project just as he pleases, but it could have gone so much better. People are mostly just disappointed, I feel like.
I mean yes, in a certain sense mbin is exactly how open source is supposed to work when things go sideways: fork the code, change the name, leverage the original work, leave Ernest in peace, whatever he's dealing with.
It seems like his health condition got bad enough that he quite literally prioritised his life.
I hope he's well.
What I saw over there was a large portion of his community pleading with him to delegate administrative tasks to the community, as it became increasingly clear the website was becoming too much for a single guy to manage (he was the only moderator of like 30+ communities that were full to bursting with spam, as well as the sole site admin). He never approved the many applications to help moderate, and said he was extremely slow to trust others, so never appointed a second admin, and instead just continued to silently work on the codebase as the site became unusable from spam.
I think his extreme distrust and desire to do everything himself combined with his medical issues led to extreme burnout, and ultimately its downfall.
I mean... Maybe some exceptions, but I don't feel like the community was being too pushy.
Stuff happens in life, people get that, but I don't feel like it's too much to ask for an update about what's going on more than once every other month and while we appreciate him trying to handle everything, when he can't, there needs to be some effort at creating a backup plan. And... then finally when people stepped up to offer to help him, he didn't appreciate them, ignored their efforts and pushed them out (which is why we have mbin).
The dev had medical issues, and went offline for months. Lack of maintenance caused the site to break.
I have been on and off lemmy lately, kbin has been shutdown?!!!
The head dev just kinda peaces out from time to time. Supposedly, he's got a lot going on in his personal life, and he probably really does, but he's also unwilling to hand over the reins or communicate or share, so the main instance just kinda died.
I remember he already had some beef with mbin so I'm unfortunately not too surprised by that. He wanted to stay in control but could not manage it alone either so ultimately it was an inevitable outcome.
It's much easier to follow people from e.g. mastodon from here than I remember it being on lemmy.
the interface to all the exact same content, as you point out, is better.
why would i use an incredibly shitty interface that almost requires the use of an app, when i can access 100% of lemmy from mbin?
this whole 'lemmy-centric' view you have of the fediverse is archaic. you need to think bigger.
the whole point of the fediverse is access to all the content from your interface of choice... and youre asking 'why choose the better interface?'
The approach could be to use the lemmy server software and a custom UI, not a whole new server-side project like kbin/mbin.
Examples:
I love the front-ends as well but it feels like every Lemmy update breaks something there. Alexandrite still hasn't updated to 0.19.5 (since most instances are still on 0.19.3 due to image caching issues), and upvotes/downvotes still don't show up in my instance.
You can make these great points without the digs lol
Everything you listed is opinions and he is asking for actual reasons to use it.
To op:
There is no benefit to either. Test out a few frontends and choose the one you like the most. The differences are minimal.
this whole ‘lemmy-centric’ view you have of the fediverse is archaic.
More like narrow, but we see that all over. Mastodon users think microblogging is the end-all, be-all of the fediverse, even ignoring the loads of other, similar server software in that sector. Lemmy users talk about the fediverse as if it's only community-based forums.
In the meantime I guess, say, Peertube users are over in the other end of the room scratching their heads.
TIL Kbin died.
The mbin devs don‘t seem to be lolicon apologists and transphobes.
Looks like Lemmy is the way to go. I really like how well it works.
Apropos of nothing, I'd like to see a mod done to the fediverse... Each user keeps their own info pod, and fedi sites can use that to populate profiles.
Migration is the largest hurdle in the fedi for users, instances change/shut down/federate with Meta without warning, etc.
Would be great to have one's info on one's own drives, go to other mastodon site that didn't e.g. manipulate its users into being on Meta and just plug in.
Images could also be stored this way, so copyright and provenance is straightforward. When user moves, so does all that.
Then a lemmy, (x)bin, piefed instance becomes just a place to park and not a captive zoo.
I think that the fediverse should offer a compelling improvement over commercial SM,: For me self-custody and easy migration are the things.
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy