It’s all about results. That said…
Its stupid. Energize the fucking progressives. There are far more progressives than there are conservatives. There might even be more progressives than there are moderates.
Energize the fucking progressives.
Yes. She could be capitalizing on popular progressive ideas, like healthcare or lowering grocery prices. These ideas have traction with groups beyond just leftists. She could have run an Obama style campaign, rather than be Biden 2.0. Instead we get Cheneys and "opportunity economy" for small business owners.
There are far more progressives than there are conservatives.
Doubt. Gallup has 48% of Americans identifying has Republican or Republican leaning. Unless you're telling me that self identifying Republicans are not conservative, but are in fact made up of mostly "moderates" or secret progressives, I don't know how else you came to this conclusion.
There might even be more progressives than there are moderates.
Also doubt. Where's the data on this?
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think people, especially very politically-minded people tend to imagine their fellow citizens as has much more inflexible political views than they really do.
Most Americans are pretty ignorant of politics in general, and we get fed what is essential political theater in place of political news. I think those of us sitting online vigorously discussing politics tend to overestimate the political convictions of the average voter.
Most American voters, outside of those who are extremely entrenched in their parties, seem to me, to be pretty protean and contridictory in their views. I think it's not unlikely that a self-described "conservative" would in fact support a lot of progressive policies as long as they were presented in a way that Tucker Carlson hasn't pre-provided a talking point for.
Don't forget that Trump was *against the discriminatory trans bathroom bills" in 2015, and all the same people who are now ready to organize pogroms against trans teenagers voted for him either way.
Found some better data than just R v. D.
In 2023 Pew has 33% of Republicans identifying as conservative and 25% of Democrats identifying as moderate or conservative, so Americans are somewhere between 33% and 58% conservative. Conversely, Americans are somewhere between 23% and 37% liberal.
I think you've vastly underestimated the number of conservative Americans.
Here's some data. Republican voters hate the Democratic Party, but they can be surprisingly supportive of progressive policies. After all, those policies would improve the lives of all Americans.
https://www.citizen.org/news/progressive-policies-are-popular-policies/ 2019
At this point, I've started assuming all of these polls are bullshit.
It's been an all-hands-on-deck moment since 2016, and this is the culmination. Anybody willing to help is on the team. Anybody refusing help for the team is not on the team.
So not only is Dick Cheney on the team (at least right now), he's more on the team than some progressives.
Architect of the greatest war crime in the 21st century but hey, welcome to the resistance!
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. For now.
It's like an alien invasion happening. Except a complete fascist takeover. And not even the Cheney's are willing to go that far.
Once this is over, if the good guys win, we can all go back to hating each other.
They're all my enemies though
With you. But we've got to prioritize one enemy at a time so we're not waging war on multiple fronts.
Let's take down orange Mussolini together first, then we can take down the republicans that allowed this to happen, and the ones that committed war crimes.
We'll never get to where you think this will get you. I won't make common cause with genocidaires.
Rare to see someone on an ML domain speak out against Stalin and more modern genociders like Xi. I'm with ya, but you should know, your instances admins like to ban for such things. Be careful.
So clever!
What, not being a hypocrite? If you criticize one. You should criticize the other. I agree the US and Harris shouldn't support and enable genocide. Neither should ML. Nothing about it is really clever. But if you think it is I think that says more about you than anyone else.
You really think you're doing something her don't you? Am I being harangued to vote for Stalin? Are my taxes funding anything Xi is doing?
Of course not. I literally complimented you on being genuine. And warned you about the hypocrisy of pointing out the same for other groups on that instance. Judging from your reaction something about one or both of those offended you.
Sure Stalin slaughtered tens of thousands of ethnic polish and helped WWII Germany take Poland. That's on the older side of things. Putin has slaughtered nearly 10M Ukrainians last I saw. Lots of ML, perhaps and hopefully not you, defend Putin in this. Xi and the vanguard party in China are similarly imprisoning and slaughtering any that do not conform to their prescribed monoculture. Which again far too many Marxist leninists support. Though hopefully not you hopefully you're being genuine. But from your responses so far I do question that.
What a felicitous meeting of two genuine gentlesirs! For my part, I would like to reciprocate the compliment and congratulate you on your steadfast opposition to the Democrat party, given their unwavering support for genocide in Gaza. It is a rare thing indeed for a .world user to go against the grain of liberal political opinion by refusing any political support to such monsters as Harris, Waltz and Biden.
Oh he's willing to go with that far there's just not enough in it for him.
I would say he's a solid #2 in that regard behind Kissinger
21st century?
lol oops, reading is hard.
Rational people understand it’s an emergency, and we need to have the biggest tent with the most people in it.
Who is the Dick Cheney/Liz Cheney constituency though? Whose opinion will be swayed by the former VP of a deeply unpopular administration at its end? Or by a former Congresswoman with a infamous last name?
This is a nice-to-have for Democrats, but is it actually moving the needle with voters? Is it actually changing minds or increasing turnout? Harris and her advisors certainly think so, she's out there campaigning with Cheney actively, but where is the movement in the numbers, cause I'm not seeing it.
Just not big enough for the left, naturally.
The "center" has run to and supported her so they're getting what they want. If the left wants anything you have to get in the tent first. There's a reason Bernie ran in the Democratic primary. Keep our democracy and work on shifting left via primaries and ballot measures. Otherwise we've got an R dictatorship and I'm not rich enough or white enough to deal with that.
We're already in the tent. In the back. In the "I assume they will vote D" seats.
And we will this time. (At least, I will.) While D cheerfully becomes the new conservative party and R becomes/remains the batshit crazy party.
Somehow the Republicans inviting Trump and the racists to take over had the net effect of pulling D to the right.
“They don’t have a home anymore,” said Walz.
The people who no longer have a home are progressives. R made their own fucking bed, but the Democrat leadership kept the light on for them, so they will be OK.
Most of .ml and hexbear and other "tankies" are vocally saying they're going to vote someone else like de la cruz or west (or not at all). All of those same people can't respond to the fact that if they want third party viability then need to 1)make sure voting remains a thing (aka vote harris this election)and 2) work to get something other than ftfp voting and work hard to get progressives in the primary3) don't expect quick change because the system is set up to maintain a status quo which means a lot of willpower is needed for changes.
is obvious I think. Palestinian genocide should not be supported by our country but Harris has at least talked willingness to pull netanyahu back somewhat. Rs want to let netanyahu be further unhinged in his genocide, let putin commit a Ukrainian genocide, then start a new one at home starting with the Trans and quickly spreading to other lgbtq, Latinos and whatever the outgroup of the hour is.
basically the main driver behind this two party divide. RCV is why Alaska, home of Sarah Palin has a democratic house representative. I know people talk about other systems too, what I know is just about anything is better than the FTFP we currently have.
Before '08 politicians hadn't seriously considered M4A. Now what we got, the ACA/Obamacare hasn't been good but is a hell of a lot better than what we had before.
Better than what we had is basically the aim. Rs and billionaires have been playing that game for themselves since before Reagan and are why we're in a sea of shit. We're not going to magically fly out of the shit into a socialist utopia, it is a long slog back to a shore of reason then trekking to somewhere better. All I'm saying is voting can't be the lone basis of fixing our system but is a bare minimum to keep a system in place. A revolution is only nice on paper and it's just as likely the "bad guys" win.
we need to have the biggest tent with the most people in it.
Which is why we're gonna completely ignore the sizeable uncommitted movement and probably the entire state of Michigan.
In other words: Yes, Stalin is a murderous dickbag who won't let us use his territory to bomb Japan and steals every piece of technology we send him but we need him to beat Hitler.
forging that relationship at the time was helpful and a clear benefit and, unlike then, the poll numbers are making it clear that campaigning with support from war criminals is not helpful.
Exactly. As long as they dump them as soon as they win. The thought of having a Cheney in the Harris cabinet is unacceptable.
If she wins, there will suddenly be a ton of "former" MAGA that are suddenly "center-right" and ready to cooperate.
Remember when Obama tried that?
As long as they dump them as soon as they win.
They won't. We're watching D jump right in response to the Republican own-goal of the past few years.
somehow
The thought of having a Cheney in the Harris cabinet is unacceptable.
that's who kamala was alluding to when she said she could have republicans in her administration.
I'm aware
Yea I feel the same way. People not taking it seriously enough think they have the power to get something by not voting for Harris or Trump beyond an ego boost. So many folks today think they have morals and not voting because they think Dick Cheney is somehow going to suffer for a Trump win is beyond me. For example, Hasan. He is safe in his state of California because HE KNOWS that CA is FPTP and Harris will win CA so he writes in Bernie because his vote has no power. But trying to pretend its a moral stance is a joke and cowardice.
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