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[-] ntma@lemm.ee 11 points 1 hour ago

Once you realize the byproducts of oil and how essential some are and the fact that rich countries aren't going to change their way of life and the fact that developing countries will industrialize in the same way western countries have and will start to produce similar environmental emissions things look pretty bleak in terms of that average temperature rise.

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 9 points 1 hour ago

the fact that developing countries will industrialize in the same way western countries have and will start to produce similar environmental emissions

That's not a fact. It makes more sense for developing countries to skip directly to renewable energy sources.

[-] ntma@lemm.ee 2 points 44 minutes ago

You're right it's not a fact. But I would say large percentage of developing nations aren't pursuing such options because it's easier to use things like coal. If you take a look at the new coal plants under construction as the moment, the top 15 are from developing countries. https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-just-15-countries-account-for-98-of-new-coal-power-development/

China and India account for 3 billion people alone and they're still building new coal plants to account for their growing energy needs despite using renewable energy.

to be perfectly clear, this probably wouldn't help much, since we would likely just move to shipping something like hydrogen across the ocean anyway...

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 19 points 4 hours ago

Won't someone think of the seamen?

[-] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 4 hours ago

I'm constantly thinking of seamen

[-] WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 4 points 4 hours ago

Capt'n Pugwash and Seaman Stains will both be out of jobs.

[-] tilefan@lemm.ee 17 points 5 hours ago

correct me if I'm wrong, but the United States doesn't even have oil refineries that are capable of making gasoline out of American oil? like we need the type of oil that the middle East has, so we're constantly trading oil back and forth even though we have plenty of it

I think I've heard this is true. something about politicians wanting to look environmentalist and therefore preventing the building of any more refineries

it's also to do with prices. There is a certain amount of this that is true, but the primary reason is oil prices.

[-] tilefan@lemm.ee 3 points 1 hour ago

yeah from what people are telling me, we have the capability of processing lower quality crude oil so it makes more sense to export our high quality stuff, then buy the cheap stuff since we can already refine it.

yeah thats pretty much the TL;DR here. It's complicated since oil is complicated and there isn't really a "insert oil" oil to talk about, there are a lot of variations of it, and a lot of ways to refine it, and a lot of different resultant products from it as well.

The fact that the modern petro industry even works is kind of insane.

[-] tilefan@lemm.ee 2 points 44 minutes ago

yeah it's wild to me that petroleum jelly and kerosene come from the same thing

[-] fox@hexbear.net 11 points 5 hours ago

No, there's a significant amount of oil infrastructure locally. They've even got a colonialist extension with Canada: crude oil crosses over to be refined and sold back to Canada

[-] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 7 points 4 hours ago

No, it is true. It is not the quantity of oil infrastructure, but the grades and types they are. The US crude is mostly light sweet crude after the shift to oil shale. The refinery infrastructure was originally built for heavy crude with high sulfur content. Thus the US imports the type of oil our refineries were built to handle, and exports the portion of the oil that is domestically produced, but the wrong type.

[-] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 6 points 4 hours ago

The lack of investment in the types of oil refineries to refine US oil domestically isn't as much for optics purposes. But that relative to the amount of investment required to build new refineries to compete with the current foreign ones isn't a good return on investment relative to the up front cost and the existing profits of the current arrangement.

[-] tilefan@lemm.ee 3 points 4 hours ago

the government should at least subsidize a couple so in the event of an apocalypse we can make our own gasoline.

[-] sonori@beehaw.org 5 points 4 hours ago

Offhand I believe we have a few that can do light oil, but most of ours wouldn’t want to change over even if offered to do so for free. Rather the reason is the US has a lot of chemical engineers and capital and so is good at refining the more challenging to deal with and cheaper to get heavy oils while selling the easy to refine and therefore more valuable light oil we dig up down in Texas to places that have more primitive refineries.

While we could retrofit all of our our refining capacity to use our oil, it doesn’t make financial sense because your spending a lot of money to switch to an more expensive input, so companies arn’t going to want to do it unless the government forces them to, and the government would only force them to if it wanted to spite everyone else and raise domestic gas prices.

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 109 points 7 hours ago

And they burn the worst kind of residual bunker oil because it's the cheapest option and regulations don't exist.

[-] perviouslyiner@lemmy.world 34 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

And destroyed the Baltimore bridge because their backup engines were split between legal fuel and international-waters fuel.

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[-] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 70 points 7 hours ago

Some of these ships would carry green hydrogen and new lithium batteries and old lithium batteries (to be recycled) and whatnot. Also at least some oil would be still needed for fine chemicals like meds or (idk what's proper english term for that) large scale organic synthesis like plastics, or even straight distillates like hexane (for edible oil extraction) or lubricants. Some of usual non-energy uses of oil can be easily substituted with enough energy like with nitrogen fertilizers but some can't

[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 40 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

We aren’t consuming batteries anywhere near the rate we consume oil and coal. Hydrogen even less than batteries.

So the amount of ships needed would still be a fraction of what we use now.

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[-] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 34 points 7 hours ago

the argument for renewable energy isnt that we should stop using oil, its that we shouldnt burn it. why turn our limited supply of oil into CO2 and water when we can turn it into plastics, medicine, solvents, etc? around 3/4 of crude oil is used as fuel, but if renewable energy was used, the number of oil tankers would decrease by more than 75% bc local supplies would generally be sufficient for industrial, non-fuel uses

bc local supplies would generally be sufficient for industrial, non-fuel uses

this is assuming that its not just cheaper to import that needed oil? This is always going to be a fundamental problem, though maybe we already happen to produce plastic with native oil idk.

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[-] M600@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago

Now I’m waiting for the news report,

“Green Energy will cost jobs!”

yeah, free market economies baby, making everything more efficient!

So what you’re saying is the companies that own those boats will lobby the government so that this never happens? Sweet.

actually, it's already happening, why do you think LNG is such a massive export from the US right now?

[-] tomatolung@sopuli.xyz 13 points 6 hours ago

Anyone know how much of the oil transported is actually used for plastic, percentage wise?

[-] iSeth@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 hours ago
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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2024
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