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My daughter is 14, but I'm sure answers for kids younger or older can apply.

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[-] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 62 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

So, do what you need to do for your family. But I'll say this. I spent time looking into this last go round because I knew Biden was a temporary reprieve. I'm the parent of a trans kid, we did not leave the country for several reasons.

The entire western world is experiencing this dramatic rise in fascism. There's no guarantee that you will actually avoid this long term.

Many countries (especially the UK) have draconian immigration rules, see above note about fascism.

We ultimately decided to move to a blue state, from a red one, primarily for safety reasons, and made it happen over a couple years. We are far happier in this situation and are now able to help extract other loved ones from similar situations.

Again, do what you need to do for yours and your family's safety, but you're in for a tough go of it regardless of what you choose.

ETA: I went as far as interviewing for some jobs in Canada after building my immigration profile and starting the job search in NZ.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago

The UK is eliminating conversion therapy. The U.S. still has it and Trump has a good chance of forcing people into it.

I'm a dual citizen, I have a queer daughter. I think it's worth taking advantage of that since my wife and I wouldn't forgive ourselves if she got taken from us.

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago

Somehow,.I forgot that "conversion therapy" is anti-gay cult torture-y stuff.

For a bit, I was thinking it was therapy for people who wanted to transition. Because I forgot the word transition and thought it was "convert".

I know this is meaningless, but I felt like sharing. Lol

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

I wish we could all forget what it means.

[-] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 7 points 3 days ago

That's a very different calculation then! I can't say I'd do it differently in your shoes. Godspeed.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago
[-] Corngood@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 days ago

This seems reasonable. I don't feel like Canada necessarily in a less precarious place than (e.g.) California.

[-] jaxxed@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

Canadians feel the same.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

Immigration rules are not an issue. I have dual citizenship. Thanks though.

[-] gi1242@lemmy.world 57 points 3 days ago

if you're planning to leave because trump got elected, then be warned. the UK has similar problems

[-] calamitycastle@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago

Similar risks I would say. The UK by and large chose "the sensible option" in the last general election. The equivalent of Harris/dems, or the "anti chaos" option.

Reelecting Trump vs reelecting the Tories is a fair comparison, especially as the Tories are moving further and further right wing.

In summary the labour party have about 3 years to make some noticeable impact to people's lives in the UK, but all that against the backdrop of huge financial issues incurred during the past decade or so, increasing war and conflict and now the Trump presidency.

There very well maybe people who will follow the conservative party on their way further right. The UK already had it's brexit moment and has not really learned from it fully.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

The UK government is getting rid of conversion therapy. Labour wants to, the king wants to, the C of E wants to, and because of the last part, enough Tories want to that it will happen.

So it doesn't have similar problems when you have a queer child.

[-] Skydancer@pawb.social 7 points 3 days ago

LGB is one thing, Q and T are another. There's a reason it's so often referred to as "TERF Island".

[-] jibbist@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Piss off, the UK is one of the safest places to be gay and to grow up gay in the world.

[-] Skydancer@pawb.social 5 points 3 days ago

Absolutely - it's a great place to be gay or lesbian, and presumably bi as well. Trans or gender nonconforming is another matter.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

As unfortunate as that is, it is not in issue with my child. I know what I'm doing to keep her safe. I just don't know enough about adjusting her to school.

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[-] BrundleFly2077@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 days ago

Everywhere does right now :(

[-] khannie@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

I feel like Ireland is still mostly reasonable despite some recent nonsense. Elections just got called yesterday so I may eat my words in three weeks but I don't think so. The extremists were roundly rejected in the recent European elections which was comforting.

[-] BrundleFly2077@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago

Welp. That’s good enough for me! I’m coming over! 😉

[-] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

UK Trump is slightly younger

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 36 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I have not, but I've done some immigration and have general advice:

Immigration is expensive and very time consuming to get the required documents.

  • Figure out how you're going to get residence, what visa you'll be on, what visa your kids will be on
  • See if you have to enroll in school ahead of time
  • Test the job market by applying, interviewing, and getting offers beforehand. Even if you decline them, you don't want to be surprised
  • Make a spreadsheet of needed documentation for each person. Forgetting one thing can screw you up badly on the day you need it
  • Do everything above, twice, to make sure you didn't screw up the first time

Imo immigration is an amazing way to live the only life you have, but make sure you put in the work to make it work. I've seen lots of immigrants give up and go back to their home country before putting in the effort to fully realize their dreams, and it's low-key sad

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago

Maybe contact an immigration specialist in your country of interest?

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 31 points 4 days ago

Damn. If it wasn't you I was gonna dunk a bit.

Like. "Get ready, because they teach kids. Also, they hold back the ones who don't pass. So they won't leave them behind so much as Keep them behind."

And, you know, I'd leave some grammar bits in there too.

I just wanna say I hope you can get clear and being the family to safety. I worry it's harder with any pre-existing conditions - it's brutal to get into Canada with even diabetes - but I hope you can make it.

Good luck.

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

Damn. If it wasn't you I was gonna dunk a bit.

Thought the same. Was going to say their kids will start talking funny in few years after the move.

Thiiis propa' geeze' wouldan understand them talk, yeah?

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[-] oderus@lemm.ee 24 points 3 days ago

We moved to NZ temporarily with 8 and 5 year ollds and they had to make new friends, be away from family and only see people from back home via video calls. Luckily the school and community are nice and welcoming so they rolled with it really well.

The visa application was long and expensive (application fees, specific medicals for immigration, etc.) so that part can get immensely frustrating.

What really helped is having similar aged neighbors for the kids to play with where we can hang out with a few beers as well.

[-] Uncurious3512@lemmy.world 23 points 4 days ago

I got no helpful advice, but wishing you and your family all the best.

[-] alberttcone@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago

I can’t offer any comparison between the Us and the UK, but I have some experience of having a neurodivergent child in the UK. We live in the NE of England, an area which is on average pretty deprived by UK standards*, however the support from the primary and secondary state schools we have used has been exceptional, with additional staffing as required and sensitive adaptions to needs throughout. There was some bullying at one point in primary school, but that was dealt with promptly and effectively and strategies were put in place to avoid social isolation - things it would never have occurred to me to do. The support for LGBTQ kids in secondary has also been pleasantly surprising - to the point that those who try to pick on trans kids find themselves becoming persona non grata pretty quickly.

There are some pretty huge cultural differences between the UK and the US, as you will know, and I suspect adjusting to those are going to be the primary problem in the move, rather than the support for a neurodivergent or SEN child.

*I feel like I should stand up for my adopted North-East; whilst it’s true that there are deprived areas, the NE is a beautiful place, the people are friendly and welcoming and the cost of living is low compared to many areas. The accents are proper canny too!

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

That is excellent to hear. Thank you.

[-] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 days ago

Take a holiday there as a family for several weeks. Get out of London and see some places. See how your family enjoy their time there. It’ll give you all some perspective.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

I've been there many times. My father is from there. I'm a citizen. Enjoyment isn't an issue. This is about my daughter's safety.

But since I've never been there to live with a school-age kid, that's something I could use some advice on. Of course, I'm reading up on it as well, but I wouldn't mind some pointers on this specific issue.

[-] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I live here too but I don’t have a personal perspective on the kind of move you’re thinking of making.

What I can suggest is there is plenty of data to help you inform your decision.

Here’s a map of crimes in the UK so you can input a place you’re thinking of moving to and what the crime rate is like in the area (and the nature of the crime).

Guns aren’t a fear here. Yes you can get a shotgun or an air rifle but no automatic weapons, there’s a lot of regulation, checks, and requirements. Even with gangs in major cities, you’ve not much to fear about. And even knife crime pales in comparison to the states. I’ve lived in some of the most dangerous areas and I’ve been fine. With a young woman in your family, common sense, staying to well lit areas etc and they’ll be fine.

Schools are inspected by a government agency called Ofsted so you can look to what specific area of a place you’d want to move to to be in the catchment area of a decent school.

The government department, the Office for National Statistics, has a map that shows where areas of household deprivation are by percentage of population in the area. In general, the higher the percentage on the map, the more affluent the average person is in an area. This correlates with crime so you would be better to find a less deprived area if you’ve a young family.

Flooding can be a risk so you can look for long term flood risk areas here and historic flooding areas here.

And naturally, it would be best to look for a job first as, especially if you’re looking at senior or executive positions, the org may help you with visas and relocating.

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[-] ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Neurodivergent kids can get an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP). We’ve found this great with the right state school - break time provisions, 1:1 sessions, mental health help, extra time in exams etc.

I would say get a report from an educational psychologist (even though they say you don’t need to below) or arm yourself with evidence, most likely, like all benefits in the UK, you may have trouble with the first application, but get help from a charity or professional with wording and apply again, every time helps.

Happy to have you!

https://www.scope.org.uk/advice-and-support/applying-for-ehcp-without-educational-psychologist-report

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Thanks. We have a full report from a place that does evaluations with lots of test result information, so hopefully that will work.

I really appreciate all of these websites people are sharing!

[-] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago

I wish you and your family the best. It's a scary time. Love from Canada.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago
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[-] KaTaRaNaGa@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Some relevant words on the UK from an energy economist here.

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[-] frostysauce@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Why the UK, why not Ireland? It's still a fairly conservative society but the government isn't nearly as hostile to it's citizens and you get to be part of the EU.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Because I'm not an Irish citizen.

[-] frostysauce@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Oh! I didn't realize you already had UK citizenship. That's definitely the easiest way to get to a better place than the US.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Yeah, we are lucky in that respect.

[-] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 4 points 3 days ago

Is your kid neurotypical? If so it's going to be much easier for you to move almost anywhere in the UK.

If not, and/or if you can afford it, look into smaller private schools with lots of extra curricular activities going on. With the smaller class sizes, education and potential for assimilating with peers will be drastically improved for your kid, and you will have a much easier time meeting other parents and forming a community too.

Otherwise state schools with lots of arts and sciences funding are probably your best bet, so look into that, find a good one and try to move to their catchment area.

Also if you or your kid have any mental/health issues, get health insurance. NHS waiting lists are very long and the quality of service is often poor, especially for people in vulnerable situations and for visibly queer/trans/neurodiverse female presenting/bodied folk. Honestly, just get health insurance anyway if you can afford it, it should be cheaper here than in the US at least.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a parent nor an American in the UK, but I am from here and went to a lot of schools as a kid (moved a lot) and I am queer.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately she is not neurotypical and she does have mental health issues. We will try to get insurance ASAP, but we may just have to deal with the NHS at first. I have major medical issues myself.

For the beginning, as long as we can get our medications refilled, we'll be okay. We'll see what we can afford in terms of other things. That said, she is very willing to put in the effort herself to make this work because she knows what's at stake, so hopefully that determination will help her.

[-] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Some areas in the UK have drastically better autism and adhd services than others. Like day and night drastically.

From memory, and sorry to direct you back there, Reddit's UK autism and adhd boards did have some resources on this, and will probably have enough of a user base to be able to give you a good idea of where is currently good or bad.

Cheltenham is probably still really good for both NHS and charity/independent adhd, autism and mental health services for both kids and adults- but my information on the area is now nearly 5 years old, so you will have to look it up for yourself.

And I can only speak for NHS adult adhd, autism and MH services in North London, but they're next to non existent here and will, from experience, very likely be actively detrimental when you are able to access anything.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Thank you, that is all very helpful. We have no idea where we'll end up quite yet. The first goal is to try to get a job before emigrating, but failing that, trying to do the logistics of who to stay with at first. We have options, thankfully.

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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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