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Most people just want a good life. If we stopped seeing each other as the enemies the world could be better.

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[-] babybus@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Yeah, but also people have very different ideas of what good life is, and what stops them from having it.

[-] leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 month ago

Most people seem to want others not to have a good life, ignoring or disregarding the effects that might have on themselves.

Many if not most would sacrifice their own wellbeing if that guarantees that "the right people" will also suffer. They see the world as a zero sum game, and can't conceive the possibility of having a good life if others aren't having a bad one.

Most people suck, often to the point of being monstrous by any decent definition.

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[-] z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I have been struggling with this lately. I am staunchly anti violence and anti war, and yet, I am conflicted on how far I truly would be willing to go to cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world.

These things are abhorrent to me, and I wonder how much of my humanity I'd be willing to sacrifice in exchange for even one of these to no longer being in existence amongst the ranks of humanity.

How much good does pacifism give to the world in promoting the better angels of our nature? How much harm does it do when those same principles allow the worst among us to march down our roads and drag away our loved ones in the night?

Two scenes from media I consume have lately continually resurfaced in my mind. One is this scene from Vinland Saga, where the main character's father confronts him when he finds his sword. The father is about to go off to war, and somberly asks his son who he wants to kill with his father's sword. This culminates with the father, who again, is about to go off to war, emphatically declaring to his son that he has no enemies, that there is no such thing as enemies.

The other is this scene from Star Wars Andor, in which a high level spy of a burgeoning Rebellion is asked by a compatriot (who wishes to quit fighting the Empire due to possibly being found out), asks what he sacrifices for the fight against the Empire. The monologue he delivers is chilling, acknowledging he sacrifices all things that make him human, he becomes like his enemy in order to defeat them. When he reflects on the question, and asks, "So what do I sacrifice? Everything!"

That...is what I believe I will have to give up in order for there to be a sunrise for the people I love tomorrow. I'll have to give up my humanity, everything. And I am afraid. I am selfish. I don't want to. But I don't know any other way.

The feelings that scene stir up in me resonate because that is how I feel when I think on the fascist cancer that has once again metastasized in America. Having no enemies... if only. Truly. Having enemies robs me of my humanity, because in fighting them I must bury my humanity. And I know that once I do that, there's no going back. There will be no redemption.

The thing I am struggling with is... am I the one who makes them my enemies? Or are they? And if the only thing we can agree on is that we are enemies...then what choice do we have when they come for me and those I claim as my kin?

[-] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

I can see uve put a lot of thought into this.

The beauty of being human is that u have free will. U can choose to believe what u want u can choose to do as u wish.

If u claim that someone is ur enemy then they most certainly 100% are ur enemy. If u do not claim this and they claim that u are their enemy then they are not nessasarilly ur enemy. Its a common trope that you create ur own worste enemies iron man trilogy is a great example of this.

If u where no to be "selfish" (to maximise the life of everyone over urself) then u would donate everythibg u had to make the lives of others better untill ur life is equal to that of the lowest person alive whos life u seek to improve. U would give up ur possessions ur food ur drink the organs u can spare u might even commit self immolation. U clearly are not doibg this so therefore u must admit u are on some level "selfish".

U could then say this is a ridiculous thing and that u should live to maximise ur own life over everyone else. U could poison the earth destroy the forests dig oil out of the ground to power ur weapons factory that u sell to both sides of a conflict where each side aims to genocide eachother while u push propaganda to extend this state of affairs. You could disrespect the rights of everyone for ur own enjoyment.

It is ur free will to decide where on this spectrum u wish to be. And wherever u may end up its still selfish to some degree.

Say u can create 1 unit of evil to extinguish 1million units of evil will u do this? What about 1 for 100? 1 for 2? 1 for 1.000001? 1 for 1? In all these cases u arw doing evil and at worse u arent making the world a worse place?

Imo:

I would be willing to do almost anything to achieve my goals

Pacifism simply allows the proactive to take advantage of the weak

1.8million people died of a preventable disease last year and ur worried about ur humanity because u will have enemies and thats gonna undermine ur humanity? Are u willing to ignore 1.8million deaths per year to fight another fight that is multiple orders of magnitude less harmfull? Is this not a selfish act?

People go to war and kill other humans. They berry their humanity to do so does this make them unredeemable? Why would u be any different? U can choose to forgive urself whenever u wish u cannot do somthing u truly believe to be wrong (u can have regrets fron learning new info or be forced to do somthing but then thats not on u) cos then u wpuldnt do it.

I think ur scared that trump is a facist and that hes coming to murder u and ur kin. Relax ur fine u are being used. Ur a usefull idiot for the purposes of promoting a political agenda.

If they do come for you then utilise ur second amendment to do everything that u possibly can and take as many as u can with u.

[-] dubyakay@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 month ago

cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world

One of these is not like the others.

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[-] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Actually, I'm special. The right told me my parents told me so.

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[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

Nah.

A life of experience tells me most people is awful, and will have zero regards on making your life miserable for whatever reason they see fit.

People is generally bad, they just are like that. My simple existence is hated and ilegal in most of the word. Most of people in this planet wish me death without even knowing me just because how I am.

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

Paradox of tolerance

[-] rikudou@lemmings.world -1 points 1 month ago

No. Some people want to control other people because of their various sky daddies or a simple greed. And those are the ones fucking up your life. Everyone else could more or less get along, but fanatics, billionaires and other people hungry for control of others are actively make sure we don't.

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[-] SuperSleuth@lemm.ee -1 points 1 month ago

You make this argument and it immediately falls apart because people revert to "Well they want to do this, this, and this, so they actually are an enemy"

You see it here in these very comments. If you are different from the "normal" you will eventually be hated, regardless of whoever is in power. It is human nature. It has not changed, it will not change.

People, families, tribes, nations have risen to power and subsequently lost power. It's cyclical and will continue until we are inevitably wiped out by ourselves or the universe.

[-] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I mean we hunted and fucked neanderthals to extinction just because they looked like us but not exactly like us.

Yeah it's a nature thing

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

"I am vry smrt. Boog Brian here"

When someone wants to take away my freedoms or human rights. they are the enemy.

what you said is like telling a rape victim that they didn't ask if their rapist consented to raping them and so they asked to be raped because they didn't confirm they were indeed being raped.

wtf is wrong with people. bad people do bad things. punch bad people in the face and get it over with. we don't need to understand why they did it. fuck them up.

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[-] DarkMetatron@feddit.org -2 points 1 month ago

Yes, it gets problematic as soon as extreme positions and mentalities enter the equation. All extrem positions are toxic, extreme left, extreme right, extreme religious (any religion), extreme fans of a sports club, extreme anything doesn't matter.

If we could find some kind of balance, some true middle ground without huge extremes, then the world would be a much nicer place.

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[-] Zacpod@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago

I'm not sure that's true. One side has empathy. The other does not. I don't want to be friends with someone who doesn't have empathy.

[-] leftzero@lemmynsfw.com -1 points 1 month ago

They see the world as a zero sum game. They can't imagine being happy unless someone else is unhappy.

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[-] Nougat@fedia.io -4 points 1 month ago

Some are fascists. Some are not. That's a pretty big distinction.

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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
65 points (87.4% liked)

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