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[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 5 points 14 hours ago

There is no non-traditional gender role for a man to assume. A man who does not work and provide, protect and defend is shamed as a deadbeat. His is the only end of the old social contract no one wants to throw away.

[-] Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca -2 points 7 hours ago

Yeah and any woman who doesn't cook, clean and pop out children is shamed as selfish. Hmm wait, that's the definition of traditional gender roles and the topic of the article / study, interesting. Guess there's no alternatives to that for women either. It's not like a man can't just be themselves and content with that.

The fuck are you talking about? A woman can go be career driven or whatever. What else is there for a man?

[-] Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 hour ago

Being literally whatever the hell they want. The world is not black and white.

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 27 minutes ago

Society does not permit this and you're being intellectually dishonest in suggesting otherwise.

[-] CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 hours ago

Anything else. If someone questions your manhood, just tell them they are a daddy fucking dipshit and move on.

[-] TheDoctor@hexbear.net 42 points 1 day ago

An evergreen bell hooks quote:

The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.

For any men near the beginning of their journey to adopt of a more healthy masculinity, The Will To Change by bell hooks is an excellent read

[-] MiraculousMM@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago

If anyone's interested in reading through it with others, we have a book club going for this book right now! It's a fantastic read so far and we just started!

[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago

Yeah, but ...hexbear? Ferreal? 🫣

[-] frauddogg@hexbear.net 4 points 5 hours ago

At first, I had to question why I was seeing a question like this, then I remembered where I was. But if I start talking trash about dbzer0 like this here, my shit's finna get pinched.

[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 hours ago

1.) Yeah, but it's hexbear.

2.) Use gloves.

[-] MiraculousMM@hexbear.net 16 points 1 day ago

Everyone involved in the book club is taking it seriously and we've had great discussions so far without any irony poisoning. You don't need to be a commie or an anarchist to get a lot out of the experience, we just want more people who will earnestly engage with the work.

[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 23 hours ago

I might, in all honesty, and thank you. I'll have to go find how thoroughly I've blocked that instance (TIL: my filters are not fully synced between devices), but I appreciate knowing this is out there, at the least.

[-] TheDoctor@hexbear.net 16 points 1 day ago

I understand the hesitancy. Hexbear’s not for everyone. If you were only going to interact with a single corner of Hexbear and ignore the rest, this book club would be a good place to do so. It’ll be low on snark and full of people doing earnest discussion.

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[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago

Jesus, that cuts. 🥹😶

[-] garibaldi_biscuit@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Swit-zerland, fac-tors, mas-culine, show-ing, Lu-cas, respons-es, ideo-logies, patriar-chal, inde-pendance?

Like it doesn't matter? Good grief!

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Yeah because we get in there and GET THE JOB DONE. Women are just "yak yak yak" right guys?

Guys...?

guys...?

AW NO BILLY!?! WHYYYY BILLY WHYYYYY. WHY DIDNT YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT I COULD HEAR OVER THE CONSTANT NEED FOR US TO TALK ABLUT LITERALLY ANYTHING OTHER THAN OUR FEELINGS!?!

[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 37 points 1 day ago

it's stressful, spending a lifetime pretending to not be as sensitive as a de-scrotum'd testicle

[-] luciole@beehaw.org 9 points 1 day ago

Maybe I’m just slow, but I don’t get the gist of your remark. You taking a jab at men denying their sensitivity or at men being too sensitive? The two things are sometimes two sides of the same coin I guess.

[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 4 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

men denying their sensitivity

mostly this, but

men being too sensitive?

for too many men apparently any amount of sensitivity is too much

but from my experience, it's the guys who are most obsessed with how their manliness is perceived by the rest of the world who are the most sensitive of all. and they're also the most miserable

[-] GammaGames@beehaw.org 5 points 1 day ago

I think they’re saying they have to hide sensitivity with some colorful imagery to describe being very sensitive

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[-] thefartographer@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago

a particularly high risk of suicide

As is expected from the traditional gender role.

If you're someone who frequently looks at your gender and then complains "my gender typically suffers from x malady" and it's not something that's being forced upon you by external factors (such needing your partner to confirm your personal medical decisions with your doctor concerning future procreation or needing your partner's permission to file for divorce), then maybe you should consider not being a typical example of your gender.

I have suicidal ideations and intrusive thoughts because a little voice likes to pop in every so often and tell me that killing myself would be super cool. So I take medicine to quiet the voice and tattle on it to my friends and family whenever it speaks up so they can help me assess if the advice is helpful or not. Is it "manly" to tell people close to me "I'm having suicidal thoughts and I don't know why"? Nope. But I'd rather be a weirdo than hurt my family.

Tradmen and tradwives are terrible examples of how to be a human human.

[-] fossilesque@mander.xyz 12 points 1 day ago

The key to happiness is not having expectations haha. (Oversimplification, of course)

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

It is hilarious to me that you are paraphrasing a famous stoic philosophy, which is famously associated with masculinity, as a response to the ‘as expected’ higher suicide rate of gender role conforming men.

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[-] thezeesystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 day ago

I would have been that statistic too before I transitioned and found gender roles are fucking dumb

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Gender roles are pretty dumb even for people happy living in their birth-assigned gender. But I guess you see it twice as bad^2^,cause you've experienced them from both sides now. Fixing yourself doesn't fix the world, I guess.

[-] ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

I'd be interested to see what the rates of suicidal ideation are compared between men who do and don't conform to traditional gender roles. Because there are a lot of contributing factors I can think of off the top of my head, like men who don't conform as strictly to traditional gender norms are probably more likely to go see a therapist, so they are more likely to see a way out of their situation that doesn't involve suicide. Also, men who more strictly conform to traditional gender norms probably are more likely to have guns in the home, and (as other studies have shown) men tend to prefer suicide by gun over pills/meds/other methods, so I'm curious if that has an impact as well.

[-] Gustephan@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Anecdotally I am both of those. I grew up in a deep south military family, and I used to have a sidearm that I assigned way more of my identity to than I should have and thought about using on myself more than i ever thought about using in any other way. I didn't try therapy for the first time until my 30s, after I quit working for the airforce. Telling a man he needed therapy where I used to work was an insult no matter the context, and it was an open secret that you'd get fired if you sought any kind of mental healthcare. (not directly, but some security manager somewhere in the system would revoke your clearances and it would domino from there)

I'm still amazed I made it through that; it feels like almost every week I'm still blown away by how much different the world can be when it isn't just a deluge of bigotry and hatred and doomsday weapons. If you can help it, don't ever fucking make weapons. No matter how much they offer to pay you or pretend you're a hero. It's not worth your will to live

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[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago

A long-term study in the US involving around 10,000 young men has already shown that they are more likely to commit suicide over a period of 20 years if they identify strongly with traditional masculine roles. These norms are characterized by ideas that originated from the previously strongly patriarchal social framework. They prescribe the characteristics that men should have and how they should behave. These include, for example, independence, controlling their emotions and not showing their vulnerability. In science, this is summarized under the term traditional masculine ideologies.

Toxic Masculinity is very real.

frothingfash up-yours-woke-moralists

The Woke is trying to prevent REAL men from exercising their right to unalive themselves!

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

as always the problem is capitalism and its highest form, imperialism

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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2024
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